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Post by Jennigirl on Apr 25, 2012 16:13:31 GMT
Hi, I'm new to the forum and I'm currently looking into buying my first antique sword. But I'm not sure if it is authentic or just a knockoff. Here are a few pics I took. Note the tsuba is iron, I was unable to remove the mekugi as the piece I made to tap it out with was too short. it does have a noticable hamom but its only visible when viewed in person. and that is the dealers hand lol
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Post by Vue on Apr 25, 2012 16:24:06 GMT
I'm afraid it's a knock off, it has all the signs of a Chinese made replica.
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Post by Jennigirl on Apr 25, 2012 16:26:19 GMT
alright thank you. I'm glad I asked you guys first.
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ecovolo
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Retired Moderator
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Post by ecovolo on Apr 25, 2012 16:29:43 GMT
Jenni, If you're looking for the real thing in antiques, try: www.nihontoantiques.com/ . Unfortunately, their stock comes and goes-- sometimes they're flush with swords to sell, and sometimes they have barely anything. --Edward
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Post by Jennigirl on Apr 25, 2012 16:52:56 GMT
I'm really looking more for "diamonds in the rough". There is one more I am gonna look at, that the seller claims the blade is at least 100 years old and was refitted some time in the 60's. On a good note it does have a tang signature but the tang is so black it's virtually unreadable. I'll snap a few pics this weekend with the sig.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Apr 25, 2012 20:05:46 GMT
As others have said the blade is a fake.
There's a few things to think about here. A Japanese folded blade would have much smaller and tighter grain that is considerably more subtle than what you see there. The polish on a Japanese blade, even in poor condition, looks different than what you'd see on this blade too. Your blade looks like it was made from pattern welded steel, polished on a machine then acid etched to bring out the grain.
Just looking at the shape of the blade its something I saw a lot when looking at fakes at conventions and meets. The fittings look to be of poor quality and the aged look is just that - artificial aging. The Chinese have become masters at artificially aging items to make them seem like they'd be very old when in fact they may be no more than a few weeks old.
The tsuba doesn't look iron to me. It looks like antiqued brass - that meaning brass that has been artificially aged to look old. As for this blade being at least 100yrs old I highly doubt it. I'd believe in the existence of Sasquatch before I believed that blade was at least 100yrs old.
Don't get taken for a fool and don't buy it.
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Post by Student of Sword on Apr 25, 2012 20:17:14 GMT
The hada look worse than lower count pattern folded modern steel. Look like it is forged from Pakistani damascus. Not only the grain, but the contrast is more like pattern welded damascus. One steel is high in manganese, the other steel is high in nickel. If you want to go antique hunting. It is best that you buy couple of books on nihonto first. I would recommend this. It is the bible for nihonto and Japanese swords: www.amazon.com/The-Connoisseurs- ... 4770020716
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2012 17:02:26 GMT
Student of Sword is correct. There are books you can by to gain an appreciation of sword collecting, but belonging to a dojo with a competent Sensei would be better. The one I go to is run by an expert with decades in the field of restoring Japanese edged weapons. I'm a beginner there, so I admit I have a lot to learn.
--Lee
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Post by william m on May 1, 2012 17:20:31 GMT
Ohhh no, that book is much too dry to read for the beginner. I have it but hardly ever read it as its not very inviting, even though I have been collecting nihonto for quite a while. These two books are much better for beginners. www.amazon.co.uk/The-Japanese-Sw ... 781&sr=8-6 www.amazon.co.uk/Craft-Japanese- ... gy_b_img_c
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2012 18:11:48 GMT
william m, Are these books available in the States? I doubt if anything as obscure as this hobby is covered in depth at the public library.
--Lee
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on May 1, 2012 20:21:17 GMT
Well I agree with both SoS and William on books. While I love The Connoisseurs Book of Japanese Swords, it surely ain't light reading and I believe many people will find it boring. In my first 5 years of nihonto hobby I used mainly the first 100 pages of that book. Rest 200+ pages are like a goldmine too but they might not intrest those just starting the hobby. There is just so much valuable information in that book. Will suggested Kanzan Sato's book, and I agree it may be more appealing to beginning nihonto enthusiasts as it has plenty of pictures and it also has plenty of information presented in easier to approach manner. I consider this to be more introductive book than mr. Nagayamas book (I think it more as a reference book). I'll go and throw in another book, The Samurai Sword A Handbook by John M. Yumoto. This book can be bought as little as 10-20$. I consider this being one of the most easily approachable books to nihonto. It tries to cover wide array of things in just c. 180 small pages, I think it's great for beginners but I've used it less and less over the years. But I still sometimes take it with me as it's small sized and easy to carry around. All books listed in this thread so far are easy to aquire in the US. Don't know how good the public library is in your location but I guess there might be some history books on samurai but I doubt about books specifically about nihonto, then again I could be wrong. As for starting collecting, the diamonds in the rough are very hard to find. And I'd suggest reading through this in the beginning the learn some differences in authentic nihonto and Chinese made fakes: www.jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html . When buying antique swords, unless being 100% sure what you are buying, I'd recommend dealing with dealers with good reputation or with people you trust.
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Post by william m on May 1, 2012 22:08:53 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 16:09:48 GMT
Jennigirl, This is what you have, yes? www.icollector.com/MWF1515-Rare- ... _i11160789 Were you actually bidding at an auction? It's already been sold. Was it you? The date said it was sold in Sept, 2011. --Lee
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2012 22:21:00 GMT
There's something else: www.icollector.com/RARE-JAPANESE ... _i10966810 (This one was sold on a different date that the other one above.) My answer to the original question: It's a commercial item---either retail or at auction. --Lee
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