Sam H
Member
Posts: 1,099
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Post by Sam H on Apr 23, 2012 13:31:01 GMT
Some of you know me, some of you don't. That's fine, I've been away from this board for a long time due to health and financial reasons. I've returned to find this board primarily populated by a new batch of members and many of the long term veterans have become less active than I remember them being. That's normal in forums really so there's no surprise there however there seems to be this notion that those who have been here for a long time and have proven themselves to be respectable and trustworthy in their experience with swords may not actually know what they're talking about.
The greatest point of contention that I've noticed recently is the general consensus that Ryanswords/Asiaswords products are overpriced and that their advertising is not entirely truthful. Thus far I've looked at many of their current products and to my amateur eyes I will say I've seen better quality for less money. However some on this forum will say that's just conjecture and hearsay. Fine well I'm fed up with all of this calling people liars, ignorants and rumor spreaders. Thus this challenge:
I challenge you defenders of Ryanswords/Asiaswords to purchase whatever sword from them you're looking at. Then (I wish I could cover shipping but alas I am barely able to pay my bills at this point) I'll ship to you at your cost the ONLY sword I have on hand now, an unaltered (and lovingly used) Hanwei Practical Katana, for comparison. Its a sword that sells right around the $200 price mark and while its a no frills cutting sword I'd put it up against swords from Ryanswords/Asiaswords that are more than twice its price.
The points of comparison:
1. First and foremost, the quality of the blade 2. Quality of the fittings 3. Fit and finish of the sword 4. Heft and feel of the sword 5. Cutting ability of the sword 6. Durability of the sword
Because I'm basically offering up my only sword to you for comparison I reserve the ability to choose the testing regimen... and for that, just so it can't be said I'm being biased, I'm going to open up suggestions for the testing to a few members of this forum whose knowledge and experience I trust - if they choose to chime in.
I'll list them in no particular order except how they came into my head:
1. Marc Ridgeway 2.John Walters 3. Mike Harris 4. James Gall 5. The gentleman who owns Ronin Katana
Hmm those five are the only ones that come to mind right now. I'll add more names as I recall them.
Once the testing has been established it'll be up to you (whoever chooses to accept the challenge) to carry out the testing. I do want to say that I assume no liability as to your sword and I hold you to no liability over my sword. If either sword is damaged and/or broken in testing then that's just how the dice fall and neither of us are responsible nor is anyone who offered suggestions for testing. The testing MUST be done on video and the video cannot be edited except in cases of time constraint. If you don't feel confident to do the testing yourself then let me know in this thread and we can discuss who is willing to and can do the testing - that person of course not being liable for any damages that occur.
Up to the challenge?
EDIT: I'll cover shipping of my sword TO you. You cover shipping of the sword back to me.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Apr 23, 2012 13:40:52 GMT
Gosh, if i wasn one of my only swords id send my ryan sword up or th contest just so your hanwei could destroy it im not sure why someone in their right mind would consider those things as high quality, or comparable to the cheapest hanwei sword made. the only sword they seem to outperform is the 50$ musashis, and honstly as a beater the musashi is better, its not as sharp, and the fittings suck, but it would last longer in a destrucive test. i cant wait to see if anyone steps up, i get so excited when i get to see tests of a swords capabilities, S Sam, are you singling out ryan sword, or is it open to swords from the various ebay sellers who seem to be seling the same stuff, maybe someone here has an ebay katana to put up for shitts n giggles
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Post by johnwalter on Apr 23, 2012 14:06:35 GMT
To add.I have approached Ryan Sword about an unbiased test and review of one of his swords for the forums.Waiting on his reply. That is,assuming I am trustworthy guys?
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Sam H
Member
Posts: 1,099
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Post by Sam H on Apr 23, 2012 14:21:10 GMT
At this point Saito I'm focusing on Ryanswords/Asiaswords because of the accusations made by certain individuals against members of this forum. These accusations have ranged from having a trustworthy knowledge of katana to out and out lying about Ryanswords/Asiaswords. All the while none of these protractors are willing to put up their own money and property to prove their point.
Therefore this challenge is specifically aimed at Ryanswords/Asiaswords. If and when this challenge is satisfied I might open up the challenge to other ebay sellers... although all that shipping of a sword around could be much more than I can handle financially so that's a slim chance of that happening.
John - don't hold your breath.
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Post by lamebmx on Apr 23, 2012 14:28:56 GMT
I have made the same offer to asiasword associate/haz. 2 unbiased reviews, one in a more general nature and a destructive test in the same quasi-scientific manner as my huawei and musashi tests. I have owned a Hanwei Practical XL, while it saw very little use, I have learned enough to understand what to expect from it.
But alas, I am not shelling out my hard earned money on an unknown at this point and time. If I had spare funds like that to blow, it would be to test a tenchi.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 14:53:29 GMT
I have no dog in this fight (in fact I do not own a dog) and am not familiar with Ryan swords. I would think that any comparison is going to be biased by the person doing the review. While only being a member of this forum for a short time I have been a visitor to this form for long enough to know certain members favor certain brands almost to exclusion. If you like Ryan swords buy one , if you do not, don't buy one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2012 15:01:34 GMT
Hey Sam H, no point gettig worked up about people ignoring advice, don't take it personally, people do what people do, if they choose to ignore the reviews and comments, then they do it at their own risk, "Caveat emptor" - Let the buyer beware!
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Post by lamebmx on Apr 23, 2012 15:37:28 GMT
The only thing I have seen around here for ryan sword is a bit expensive for what you got. No complaints, I mean if the asthetics of the sword is worth the extra price to the purchases then cool. There have been a couple posts from asiasword affiliates/associates which is not following a good pattern. How do you forget a mattress has springs in it? Its not about favoring certain brands, its about whats cheap and will provide the best/safest experience. Touting a 1095 TH blade to a new cutter talking about cutting hard targets is borderline wreckless when there are 1045 & spring steel offerings out there that will reduce the risk of a blade snapping, at the expense of edge retention. The only reason I recommended huawei to that particular user is because I have used one of their blades against harder & thicker flat area targets. Of course I have not used a 1095 blade against these targets, but I would expect it to behave closer to T10 than to a cheap musashi or spring steel blade.
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Post by 14thforsaken on Apr 23, 2012 15:46:34 GMT
Its not the ignoring that is the issue. Its the way that things have been said in a manner that implies that we don't know anything we're talking about, are biased or basically lying. Personally I could give a flip about how people spend their Money. However, if they ask for help or opinions and then turn around and insinuate that the person trying to help them is being dishonest pisses me off.
If you don't want to hear my opinion or anyone else's on the board unless they tell you exactly what you want to hear, THEN DON'T ASK FOR IT OR COME RIGHT OUT AND SAY IF YOU AREN'T GOING TO AGREE WITH ME I DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOUR OPINION. Its not that hard a concept. If people would do that, most of us would never end up getting dragged into these threads in the first place.
Remember, for a lot of us, the only reason we even come into this particular sub-forum is to try and help. Things like this are just going to make more of the experience members not want to help people at all.
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Sam H
Member
Posts: 1,099
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Post by Sam H on Apr 23, 2012 15:59:20 GMT
Well I was going to reply but 14th pretty much said what I was going to say.
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Post by Student of Sword on Apr 23, 2012 16:03:56 GMT
A few things that I notice:
1. Many who asked questioned in this forum did not bother to visit the Review Sub-Forum. There are reviews from the old and new forum that would give a person a very good idea of what to avoid.
2. The person did not seem to use Google at all. Basic metallurgy and sword type can be learned by entering search terms in Google.
3. Sword buyers are no different than any other type of consumers. They don't research therefore unable to distinguish between poor products and good products. Furthermore, they hold opinion that has nothing to do with facts.
I no longer care about those people. If they want to waste their money. It is their money, not my money.
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Post by 14thforsaken on Apr 23, 2012 16:19:35 GMT
You forgot: 4. People want others to do the research for them and tell them exactly what they want to hear. When that doesn't happen they get upset and blame the person that attempted to help them and insinuate the person is inexperienced, biased, lying or all of the above. [Begin Rant] Maybe I'm just getting cynical with age. Or maybe its because when I was in school and my first decade or so in a professional workplace, it was expected that you research something and exhausted all other options before asking someone for help. If not, they would tell you to go off and do that and come back only if you still couldn't figure it out after doing that. Sadly school and work now seems to spoon feed the kids coming in now where they never seem to learn how to try and figure something out themselves. Its gotten where many times its easier and less time consuming to just do their work for them than holding their hand all the way through it and then having to go back and clean up all of their mistakes. Next thing you know I'm going to be yelling at the kids to get off the lawn and stop playing that music so darn loud. Getting older sucks. [end rant]
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Post by Student of Sword on Apr 23, 2012 16:29:26 GMT
14thforsaken,
Do you remember the time before Google? I do. I had to go to the library to learn anything. Now everything is at the fingertips. Considering how accessible information these days, I am puzzled by the lack of researches by people who asked questions here. Maybe you are right, peopel want instant gratification. Another thing I noticed, senses of entitlement.
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Post by 14thforsaken on Apr 23, 2012 16:45:11 GMT
Yup I remember it. I spent many many hours in the library doing research. That and reading book after book after book on subjects I was interested in to learn just a little more knowledge that I can now find and digest in 15 minutes on the web thanks to Google. I remember how excited I was when I finally got internet access as a Graduate Assistant. I wonder how many people even have to learn the Dewey Decimal system much less use it.
Unfortunately our culture has been moving to instant gratification for years now. Why bother to learn anything if you can look it up on the web? Its not like you'll ever be in a situation where you'll need to know something and not have an internet connection, like I don't know in a meeting room or out in the woods. Plus we all know everything you read on the internet must be true. :lol:
I'm starting to feel like a dinosaur.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Apr 23, 2012 17:59:16 GMT
Well that is a good offer, and maybe someone will take it.
Having owned one Yingsword chinakatana years and years ago, I'd guess your PC Practical will be pretty much intact after destructive testing against one like that one. Maybe I'm too harsh but I classify all Yingsword/Ryansword/Tommysword etc. products as a one lot.
However I agree that the main problem is in lack of research and selective reading. And I admit my opinions will always be biased but I will always change my opinions if someone will prove me (with really solid proof) being wrong, I rather admit being wrong and learning in the process.
Even though the Internet is a vast base on information. There are really huge databases outside it too, and not all information will ever be online. Just few books will give so much information, I somehow prefer books over the Internet, maybe I'm just old fashioned. Well person who loves antique swords partly must be I guess...
I tend to think it as karma. Because there are people who have knowledge to answer my questions, I think it's my responsibility to return the favor as good as I can. And I believe in repetition, as I write replies with information, it's all getting stored better in my brain, so I'm learning in the process.
But I agree the general consensus that it's alarming how little background research has sometimes been made on a subject when asking a really simple question. I'm still a beginner and I understand there is no such thing as a stupid question. However I keep my thumbs up that people would do some research if they are genuinely intrested in swords.
Guess this turned out to be bit more ranting reply than I originally intended but I guess this thread is evolving into a rant fest.
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Post by lamebmx on Apr 23, 2012 18:10:34 GMT
Unfortunately their money spent on bad products, helps keep the bad products in business. It is also less money on good products, not helping them stay in business. making sure the n00bs dont waste their money, helps keep you with manufacturers and vendors that are not a waste of your money. If they all waste their money, pretty soon your only options will be where they wasted their money.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Retired Moderator
No matter where you go, there you are.
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 23, 2012 18:24:55 GMT
An interesting challenge Sam... looking forward to seeing if anyone takes it up. At the risk of being a bit of a curmudgeon... I've noticed more recently the same sort of attitude/vibe that 14th mentioned, and I too am disappointed by it. When I first found SBG some 5+ years ago I had made some bad buys myself... and the advice I got from members here helped me immensely. Since that time I have owned hundreds of swords and have done several reviews... and I try to give back where I can to the community that was so helpful to me. More and more of late tho I'm seeing a new crop of forum members that feel a need to take 'devils advocate' positions on any maker/vendor that is considered questionable by the community as a whole. I'm not sure what the reason for this is... just to be contrary or because they honestly like the look/marketing of those vendors/makers and therefor don't want to accept that there may be issues with them... but the trend is noticeable and maybe a little annoying to me. All I can do is add my experience and voice to the community where and when I think it might have merit... and its up to anyone reading if they wish to give it any weight or not.
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Post by William Swiger on Apr 23, 2012 19:25:01 GMT
Who is Dewey Decimal and what is he famous for?
Just kidding. :-)
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Apr 23, 2012 19:31:31 GMT
i agree 100%, if your coming to ask us for help, don't call us a liar or say we're biased just because we have the experience o know what is and isn't junk. If you dont like the answer why ask in the first place?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2012 4:19:40 GMT
It's amusing that while in the old days we had to scour libraries for information, which took hours, with the books catalogued on a paper card system for heaven's sake, and if the libraries didn't have the books, you could fill in the forms for an inter-library loan which took weeks, young people today, who are glued to the internet, complain that their Google searches are "taking ages!" Ha! :lol: I think some of it is entitlement, people want to believe that it's possible to spend around $100 and get a real quality sword with this and this and that and everything else they want, and a pony!!! Basic internet 101 - Google is a search engine, type key words and press Enter key. You can search for information worldwide here. Basic SBG 101 - SBG stands for "Sword Buyers Guide" so it is a guide for people who buy swords. Reviews are reports from people who write reports after they buy a sword to tell you all about it, and the forum is a place where you can chat with other people to learn more about the swords you want to buy. You can read the reviews, read what people have asked before and what was recommended or ask people what they now recommend here. It's really that easy folks!
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