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Post by malchya on Apr 22, 2012 15:19:24 GMT
I wasn't really certain whether to put this here or on the Japanese sword discussion page. If it needs to be moved, please feel free.
Though I have been a sword collector for far too many years, my primary focus has always been European as opposed to Oriental. I have owned more Windlass, Hanwei, CAS Iberia, Valiant, Gen 2 and etc. swords than I care to think about. In all of that time I have also picked up a handful of "Katana" wannabes. My first was a stainless steel wall hanger from United that, in my youthful ignorance, I none the less used to chop brush and the occasional side of beef. I picked up a couple of different display only katana, but my first usable Japanese style sword was a Musashi Bamboo purchased after considerable research into entry level Oriental swords and some excellent feedback from you fine folks here at SBG forums. I never had any trouble with the Musashi and have used it for quite a bit of light cutting and form practice. I no longer have the sword, unfortunately, following a relocation for my company and am now looking to pick up another katana style sword. Here are the swords I'm considering (based on what I can afford, not what I wish I could buy):
Musashi 1060 line. A step up from the 1045 Bamboo I previously owned, but I've heard no opinions on them and would appreciate any input that I might be able to get from someone who has either handled or owned an example.
Ryan Swords, either one of their 1060 series or one of the T-10's.
I admit that I am somewhat taken by the look of some of the swords on the Ryan website. The ability to semi-customize by choosing my own tsuba, tsuka, saya and etc also appeals. I actually find a number of their products more aesthetically appealing than the Musashi examples.
I have searched the site here for opinions on Ryan swords as well as having perused the customer comments on Ryan's website. It appears that they do not have a good reputation with the SBG community, even having been singled out my Mr. Ridgeway in his article on the SMG website as an example of what to avoid in an entry level katana. A careful reading of most negative posts, however, reveals that the comments are based on hearsay and not actual hands-on experience. Most of the buyers' comments on the site, almost all of them in point of fact, are quite complimentary, but I don't know these people or their credentials, so I have to take their recommendations with a large grain of salt.
So that brings me to the real question: Does anyone on the forum have an opinion of Ryan's products based on actual experience and not hearsay or general feeling? What do you feel the difference would be between a Musashi sword and a Ryan made from the same 1060 stock? How about Ryan's T-10? I will be ordering my next katana in a mere five days and am quite excited at the prospect. I would appreciate any helpful input. Thanks!
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Post by malchya on Apr 22, 2012 15:22:44 GMT
I should also point out that, whichever sword I end up buying, will get a full write up on this forum complete with pics!
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Post by johnwalter on Apr 22, 2012 15:35:22 GMT
Saito has owned one.
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Sébastien
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Retired Moderator
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Post by Sébastien on Apr 22, 2012 15:49:31 GMT
The bad press against Ryan Sword is based on at least one very bad experience by a former member of this forum. His name was Wiwingti and he bought multiple swords from Ryan Sword before knowing better. The fittings were horrible, the edges were dull (and got duller if you starred at 'em for too long) and the customer service was mediocre, at best. The blades prices were quite high for their actual value. Anyway, maybe Ryan Sword improved their products since then (that was back in 2008), but personnaly I wouldn't take the plunge with this seller.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 22, 2012 16:06:34 GMT
I have placed one or two of the Ryan Swords on my growing list of swords i would be interested in getting in the future!
I also am holding back on any decision until i get a real better idea about this sword seller, and the quality of the swords they have on the market.
I have seen a lot of talk about Ryan swords from people that have nothing else to go on but a photo...
while I file away all the advice I have gotten about Ryan swords, Im not going to be guilty of basing a point of view about a whole company on a photo, and a sad story about one sword from years and years ago.
I also seek real first hand experience and reviews from people that have in their hands the very same sword I am interested in.
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 22, 2012 17:15:38 GMT
I am one who has linked to and repeated comments given about Ryan Swords to those who did not find that into on their own. I have also commented on problems I see with their product and ebay pages- but this too falls under the OP's statements of "hearsay or general feeling".
This same issue arises with HandMadeSword (HMS) to some extent- except with them I do have firsthand knowledge.
With both these companies I believe the biggest probelm regarding useful information is how out of date that info is. I have mentioned this to Kumdoalan regarding HMS.
Ryanswords may be deserving of another chance since so many other sword makers and sellers have "upped their game" in the last few years. If RyanSwords orders from a forge that is doing a better job now then who knows.. -Same for HMS-
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 22, 2012 17:21:46 GMT
It becomes a bit of a little quest for the person seeking his next sword to be sure....this need for up to date information... We got to have patience I guess....
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Post by William Swiger on Apr 22, 2012 17:42:54 GMT
I bought a couple back in 2009 and the blades were alright and came with cheap fittings and non alternating wrap. They cut bottles fine and I gave them away when I moved on to Hanwei and Dynasty Forge products. Never tried them on anything but bottles. Took them apart and all was good with the tang and no cracks on the tsuka.
This was when I first started buying Japanese style swords. I found from experience some of the lower priced swords from Hanwei and Dynasty Forge had better fittings and blades.
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Post by johnwalter on Apr 22, 2012 18:16:25 GMT
Not to mention fake mekugi and welded rattail tangs with a nut hidden under the kashira. To be fair that was along time ago,but its still hard to overlook practices like that,present or past.Especially with other companies who are better known for good quality.
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jhart06
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Post by jhart06 on Apr 22, 2012 19:38:25 GMT
Respect to Kumodalan, but if one is so intent on it being such a need for these companies to be re-evaluated, one can always quit asking the same repeated questions of others and do so themselves for the benefit of all
Personally, when things like what Johnwalter here said happen, I think what it boils down to is a reputation for dishonesty, distrust, and the like, and some may *say* they are this and that, but if they were willing to do what they did before, who is to say they have changed, and why should members of this board risk money on people with a bad track record when there are vendors with established *good* records for close to or better the money. It's rather like doing the same thing over and over and expecting results.
For the gamble involved, you could get better from musashi, ronin katana, sinoswords, huawei, zhi swords, hanwei and sundry others. And while with some, the customized bits may not always be spot on to what you asked for, I've never heard of any really crap swords.
I guess my end feelings are the fact that why bother with a risk when you can go with a sure thing?
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 22, 2012 20:21:19 GMT
We shall have to keep asking around until we find some trustworthy source for answers.
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Post by Opferous on Apr 22, 2012 20:35:22 GMT
Have a link to whichever one you're interested in? If it's not too pricey, I don't mind picking one up to review reassess the situation, assuming that being a vendor doesn't make me untrustworthy...
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Apr 22, 2012 21:02:15 GMT
I personally own 3 ryan swords, a wakizashi, a folded steel katana, and a mono steel Odachi, all of these swords can be had for under 150$ from ryans website, shipping seems ridiculus at 30-40$ nowadays. but heres my experience with them
I purchased from them a folded steel katana back in 2010, at the time i owned a musashi 1060 and the ryan folded katana blew it out of the water, real samegawa vs fake sticky rubber (low quality, but Real) decent cast alloy fittings. typical artsfeng stuff. SCARY sharp edge, very nicely done kissaski, somewhat tight non alternating ito (advertised as genuine silk) it was actually fuzzy low quality cotton. Handling was good, overall it was worth what i paid and a decent sword
Mono Steel odachi my second ryan sword, a 36 inch bladed 18 inch tsuka monster. i wont go into the fittings and handle wrap i covered that, very sharp blade, clean lines, awesome sword, until i dissassembled it. 18 inch handle. 10 inch tang....WTF! i said, and i proceeded to semprini to ryan himself, who argued with me telling me i dont know what a full tangi and a half tang is. When i threatened to give his company bad reviews he offered a full refund, i could choose any sword from his website comparable price and hed ship it to me AND let me keep the faulty Odachi. i rehilted the odachi with an 11 inch tsuka and its still mt fav sword. very sephiroth-ish
Wakizashi i chose a wakizashi for my refund sword, simple mono steel, same wicked sharp edge, same plain jane tsuka wrap fittings ext.
final thoughts, these are good entry level/ight cutters for someone who wants something a little nicer than the barebones musashi's, but for a bit more money you can do better. they are what they are.
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Post by 14thforsaken on Apr 22, 2012 21:23:21 GMT
There is an implied statement in there that we are guilty of basing a point of view on a photo or a story from the past. That isn't a very good way to get help. Basically its is accusing us of being biased or talking out of our rears. While some of what is known is from old stories, they are experiences of several of our more knowledgeable and experienced posters. If 3 or 4 people on the board that I trust and respect (and in many cases their knowledge and experience is far greater than my own) have had some not too good dealings with a vendor, I'm probably not going to shell out the money on the hope they were wrong. If I wasn't interested in their opinions, I wouldn't have asked them.
To be honest, this comes across as hostile to many of the members that have been on these boards for years and are aware of issues that happened with various vendors in the past. Most of us post in the beginner's section to try to be helpful and pass on knowledge that has been accumulated over the years. I must admit for me at least, I feel less like helping out newcomers when I run into attitude and veiled insults from the very people I'm trying to help. Yes this is supposed to be a friendly board, but that is a two way street. It is hard to be friendly to someone who seems determined to take everything the wrong way and responds with hostility or flippantly.
In wording the statement the way you did once again the implied meaning is that those of us that are on the boards aren't trustworthy. I'd suggest that you consider some of the things you say and how they may be interpreted by others before you hit the submit button.
All I can recommend is if you are determined to only go by first hand impressions, do what many of us have done over the years and bite the bullet and buy said item and then review it on the forums. Its not very realistic or even fair for that matter to expect someone else to always be the one that buys the questionable items so someone newer to the forum doesn't have to take the chance of getting a potential lemon.
Again instead of just sitting back and waiting for someone else to spend the money and do the research, why not do the community a favor and volunteer to try it out?
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Post by malchya on Apr 22, 2012 21:49:11 GMT
www.ryansword.com/handmade-japan ... p-117.html This is the one that caught my eye. I would love to be in a position to just jump right in and buy whatever caught my eye so that I could share my experiences with the rest of the board. I can't afford to do so, however. In point of fact, as I am not a wealthy man, I am rethinking the Ryan Sword purchase due to the shipping costs. Should I take the bit and plunge ahead with the purchase anyway, I will be certain to share my opinions on the weapon with the board. It was never my intention to start a feud. I just wanted some information.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Apr 22, 2012 22:02:06 GMT
having owned 3, i think youd be happier saving up for the next level, like a hanwei or ronin but its a decent entry level sword for cutting bottles.
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Post by 14thforsaken on Apr 22, 2012 22:05:40 GMT
My comments were not directed at you. You were very clear on the information you were seeking and why. If you took them as me ranting at you, I apologize.
I was merely expressing my frustration with a few individuals that seem to ask questions only to in turn imply that the people answering them either don't know what they are talking about or have some other agenda.
Personally, I far better things to do than answer someone's questions if I have a sneaking suspicion that they aren't really interested in the answers. just in seeing what they want to hear.
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Post by johnwalter on Apr 22, 2012 22:35:41 GMT
No apology necessary sir.You,have been honest and polite. Good luck to you.
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kaiyo
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Post by kaiyo on Apr 23, 2012 9:13:42 GMT
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Apr 23, 2012 13:09:42 GMT
At this point in the game and with my personal issues as of late I guess my patience is just wearing thin.
Now I've seen Kumdoalan basically saying that more experienced members of this forum are biased (and we are to an extent especially when we're spending our hard earned money), questioned our knowledge and experience and in not so many words called us liars. Normally if a man were to do that to my face, health issues or not, there'd be an altercation.
Malchya is yet another person who now claims extensive knowledge and experience with swords questioning the majority opinion that ryan swords is not worth the money.
The fact is that while there is all this questioning of the forum's general opinion (and the experience of others who I know DO have extensive experience with swords) and going to such lengths to defend said vendor none of these protractors have bothered to put THEIR own money into proving us wrong.
You want to change the overall feeling about this vendor and the products they sell then the burden is on YOU to prove us wrong. To sit and question the forum and claim you haven't found a satisfactory answer is just to be asinine and disrespectful.
So once again I challenge you - put your money where your mouth is and buy the sword(s) you are so defiantly defending in the face of overwhelming disdain. In fact once you purchase these swords - so long as you pay for shipping both ways (I'm not a rich man nor do I have much in the way of finances now due to extended illness and loss of work) I'll send you my only sword left in my possession, an unaltered Hanwei Practical Katana for comparison in blade quality, handling, cutting ability and overall fit and feel. Bear in mind though that the Hanwei Practical Katana retails for around $200 now. I reserve the ability to decide the test regimen that you'll put these swords through, side by side, at your cost. If in the process any sword is damaged and/or broken then that's how it all falls and neither you or I are liable... that means if you break MY sword you don't have to pay for it, just send the pieces back. If you break YOUR sword well that's tough but I don't have to pay for it, just ship my sword back.
Do you accept the challenge? I'm willing to put my personal property up for the challenge if you're willing to put yours up for it. If you accept then great we can coordinate the logistics via pm. If not then be more respectful of others' experience and knowledge - quit implying that they are either blowing BS out of their rears or that they don't know what they're talking about.
EDIT: I'll cover shipping of my sword from me to you. You cover the shipping of the sword back to me after testing.
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