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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Apr 15, 2012 18:31:33 GMT
Well I believe the lamination part is true, and the seller confirmed it, if he hadn't that would have been really bad.
However what I'm after is the fact that they offer it so much cheaper than the other Chinese forges. Don't know how much Sinosword or HuaWei would ask but I guess they could be in 600-700$ mark. Ronin Elites were (and hopefully will be) 800$, Zhisword offers kobuse at 1200$. And yet Ryansword offers laminated blade for c.350$.
That is the main reason that has me bit worried about these. How can you make similar sword (in the same country) with only half the cost? You have to use some shortcuts to achieve that. And In my personal opinion even Sinosword and HuaWei are already priced really low, yet Ryansword offers still lot cheaper product.
And I just remember some bad stuff of this company in the past.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 15, 2012 18:58:16 GMT
So what is the answer then?
How would you confirm the value of the sword in the ad?
The ad says the steel is a lamination of 4 different forms of steel. I questioned the seller today and the seller 100% strongly confirmed the ad.
So the ad is there with the seller on record supporting the ad..
Thus we have this lingering doubt still only due to the cheap price? a cheap price, "compared' to other sellers who we all know are already selling things way, way, way, way, WAY lower in price than we could ever hope to find being made in America.
So the doubt is "relative" to what you compare the price too.....compare it to other swords from China and you see it out of the norm...compare it to a locally made sword and its just as out of line as all the other swords from China...
Thus Im still left with the same situation of needing to find a "source" that can speak to this topic with an authority....
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 15, 2012 19:01:44 GMT
I did a GOOGLE search of this forum looking for both good and bad things to say about the seller..
I found a few topics back in 2009 that had some issues. I found a lot of posts over the years that have very good things to say about the seller.
I dont have a clear up to date understanding of the situation yet.... However i do have an answer from the seller to a question i asked this morning,,,so as it stands now, the seller gets high marks in my book for answering his email quickly....
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Post by LastGodslayer on Apr 15, 2012 20:04:40 GMT
To throw in another 2 cents... 350$ is actually above cost for the shihozume blade. I know for a fact that a regular chinese smith will churn out well over a single laminated construction sword (forged, not finished) a day, and he will earn slightly more than 10% of said value on that day (which is a lot for regular workshop wages). Wood, stingray skin, paint, horn and string are basically free over there. The thing is: Can you really trust something made for such a low value. Where is the QC cost? Is the smith motivated to remake/discard flawed blades, or is he under pressure to churn out even more? I'm surprised guys like Huawei or Sinosword do what they do for the price they ask. Zhisword has fairer prices, and one must remember: They are always making a profit. You might get a keeper, or a lemon. Play the odds
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Apr 15, 2012 20:11:54 GMT
Well judging the value is tricky, what is worth something to other will not be worth the same to another person.
I wouldn't spend 400$ for that sword but they seem to have sold 2 out of 5 so at least some will spend that money on it.
I don't doubt that the sword is laminated, I'm just wondering the quality of the lamination. It's just a hunch but I believe they will have to cut some corners to achieve so cheap result. Well it's fairly easy too see where they saved on money but if they decided to save on making the blade too, that's what worries me.
Can't say much about their blade, looks fairly decent excluding the kissaki. But it's always a lot harder to do complex laminations, and they add the chance of hidden faults if not properly made.
They had some troubles in 2006-2007 if I remember correctly. I remember that Ryansword was original eBay name, but there have been plenty of sellers selling the same products under different names since that. I lost my intrest on them in the beginning and like I said they haven't upped their game much and they've been operating from 2005-2006 (well not entirely true since they seem to offer laminated blades now...).
Looks like Slayer summed up it pretty well above.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 15, 2012 20:24:02 GMT
ANYONE KNOW ? anyone know where I could go to find out for sure about the quality of the blade and of the current reputation of the seller?
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 15, 2012 20:34:47 GMT
I don't think so. As has been said, after the company became known for overpricing their products, and that the products themselves were not very good, nobody wanted to buy them. The fact that you are having difficulty finding someone with recent experience with their newer products should say something.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 16, 2012 2:53:18 GMT
Right now all I have is a lot of guess....and looking at a sword that seems fine in the ad and with nothing else to judge it by is to base a point of view on only ignorance.
Im going to have to track down someone who has the very sword we are looking at...
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Post by Maynar on Apr 16, 2012 3:26:42 GMT
Best of luck with that. Let us know how it works out, ok?
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Post by ineffableone on Apr 16, 2012 4:27:09 GMT
Yes their are educated guesses going on, due to the fact that Ryansword has the reputation of being overpriced and lower quality. You asked people if they thought the swords were cool or crap. From my reading through the thread most seem to feel crap. Part of this is from knowing the reputation of Ryansword, part from the ads themselves. They have cheap alloy fittings, nonalternating ito, and offer the semi customization of different tsuba, saya, ito, etc. The hamon on it looks unimpressive, but show a decent hada. The nonsense name "TopQuality JAPANESE SAMURAI SWORD CLAYTEMPERED+ABRASIVE SANMAI FoldedSteel Blade" turns off most experienced sword buyers. This is a loading of catch words into a name to get newbies to take note, and think it is quality. It sounds impressive, but means little in the big picture. This claim *edit to add, made in the same process as ancient Japanese, not at all. They are using modern power hammers and forges etc, they are also using modern steels, there is no way to claim authentic ancient Japanese methods if you use these things. The best for the price range, I don't think so. Sharper than a razor? I don't think so, razors are damn sharp and this is just hype to make people think it is extra special. Authentic fittings? Doubtful since their is no way any of them are imported from Japan, the only source of authentic fittings. I would also doubt the quality of the same (ray/shark skin). It is most likely pannels made from the cast offs of other tsuka. There is a lot of hype and use of words, terms and sentences to make this sword sound special and impressive.Sanmai is touted as if it is extremely sought after and rare, but really it is quite common as a lamination and the one the Chinese forges are pumping out quite a lot. Notice the difference in SBG's lamination diagram for sanmai and Rayanswords Which lamination image above in SBG's lamination guide looks most like the one Ryan sword uses for showing their Sanmai. It isn't the Honsanmai or the orikaeshi sanmai, but the shihozume a completely different lamination from sanmai that looks like Ryanswords picture. Chinese have been doing sanmai for a long time and it is a common lamination for Chinese swords, especially jian. How is it that Ryanswords doesn't know the difference between sanmai and shihozume? Ryansword image and description. Now check out ST Swords version of sanmai illustration and description ST Sword has a correct easy to understand description of what sanmai lamination is. And ST does have langue barrier issues, yet found a way to write a good sanmai description. While Ryansword has a very confusing and not very accurate description, that does not really sound like sanmai but like something else. I would say this might be an acceptable sword at $200 range, but not at $400. For $400 you should get much more quality so I agree with the conclusion others have made of over priced. While presented well, it is marketing to people who don't know any better and think all this impressive imagery and names and options to customize makes this a decent blade, and for $200 sure it is, but not at $400. If you want to keep pursuing this vendor as an option, and not listen to the members of SBG warning of overpricing and poor QC, cool take the plunge and let us know your opinion when you get your sword. But also remember you have also stated your a beginner, with little knowledge of katana. Your just starting out and trying to learn. So while you might be completely pleased with your purchase, a more experienced katana owner might see the flaws you don't. They might realise the price paid was more than it should have been. Vendors like Ryanswords don't often sell to experienced katana owners, as those owners aren't often drawn in by that type of marketing. They sell to inexperienced sword owners, often first time buyers. These people often wouldn't even be able to tell if it was stainless or high carbon steel much less other details of the sword. Sure sometimes a vendor's reputation can be distorted. I took a chance on ST Swords when others had written them off due to one very negative review. I was very pleased with what I got, though there were still some flaws in what I got. However I was accepting and understanding of these flaws. ST Sword has improved in quality a lot since I bought my sword 2 years ago. That is nice to see, a vendor who learns and changes, improving on their QC and work. Ryanswords seems to be almost a catch all of rebranders. I would not be surprised to find out it is a franchise people buy into in China.There are tons of vendors who use the Ryansword images and info and sell their swords. Even Pointy Bits admits to buying RyanSwords rebranding them and selling them, claiming they are extremely high quality, just like he claims Haz swords are high quality. They are a mass market sword vendor, and honestly mass market tends to lower quality. They are playing the numbers and odds. The majority of people who buy wont know the difference, wont bother to complain if they do, and only a very few will ask for refunds or returns. Fro Ryanswords this is a big win when selling swords for twice what they are worth.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 18, 2012 10:40:25 GMT
I would like to know what you remember in that area....I have not really been able to find thje source for this bad rep that the seller seems to have with many on this forum right now...I would like to read where this all started?
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 18, 2012 10:49:02 GMT
Ryan swords?
perhaps I should start a whole new topic about this....Im not sure.
But I am now in the market to find a truly laminated sword and at the top of my list is the sword I have talked about on this topic. It is sold as having been made via a lamination of 4 different forms of steel.
Some suggested this might not be true, so I contacted Ryan 4 times over the last week and the answers I got back leave no room to doubt that the seller stands behind the ad 100%.
This truly seems to be a sword with 4 steel forms all laminated into a single blade.
That is just the thing Im looking for...and has a silk wrap, so this also fits with the design aims I have for my next sword.
The trouble is that a lot of members of this forum talk about the "Bad Reputation" of the seller, and because I respect this forum, I have a reason to pause and seek more information on the issue.
But the search function here sucks, (We all know that) and I have been using GOOGLE to try to pin down the source of this problem some have to Ryan and so far I have mostly not had any luck.
A lot of people here say that Ryan asks too much and over hypes his swords.
Ok, fine, I dont want to pay too much for something if I dont have to, so.....so......so who has the same laminated sword with a silk warp for less money?
If ryan is asking too much money, then this must be compared to what other seller with the same sword design?
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Post by LastGodslayer on Apr 18, 2012 11:15:11 GMT
I believe there is an entry level blunt katana from RyanSwords reviewed by average_joe (I may be mistaken), somewhere around here. It is superficially good, but I believe there is a severe misalignment of the blade and handle. I think this is the kind or problem Ryanswords tends to have. Than again, I agree with you that all the so called "bad rep" is elusive. St swords (st-nihonto on eBay) has a shihozume on ebay for 800$. Look at St swords's site for that shihozume. I believe they have one much cheaper than the ebay one. I'd give them a try. Actually, I may...
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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 18, 2012 18:52:30 GMT
I think the point here has been missed. I don't want to sound rude in any way, so please be open minded to what I am saying. The sword(s) you are looking at are of poor quality for the price. You could buy an 80$ musashi katana that would blow that 400$ sword out of the water in terms of quality. I promise you this. I have bought many swords from reputable vendors and have a pretty good idea of what is good and what it bad in the chinese production katana industry. You want a laminated blade, so do I. Problem is, they are hard to make, require a good level of polish and thats just the bare blade. I promise you that 400$ shows that it is not worth the price. Sure it's cheaper than the competition, but thats because it is lower quality. We have told you why over and over again. Sure we have not handled or inspected the sword in question with our own eyes, but why would we? We can tell its crap by looking at pictures! How can we make such a blatant assumption? Because we know what to look for. If it seems to good to be true, it is. What will you be using this katana for anyways? if its just display. go for it, I wouldent take that thing off my wall to fight a group of ninjas trying to kill me in my house. The wood tsuka is probably bad quality, the fuchi-kashira probably wont fit well and the ito will be loose. If you want a cutter, buy something monosteel. I do not believe any honest vendor would sell one for sch a low price, because those are quality components and they require additional labor, cost and assembly. I know a lot of reputable vendors that we know of sell laminated blades but not for the price your asking. Why? Because they are quality. Roninkatana.com has some. Also Dynasty Forge has a lot of different options. www.dynastyforge.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=21 Hope it helps, ~Zen~
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Post by somewhat on Apr 18, 2012 21:04:09 GMT
Or you could buy from sinosword, you know the forge that:
Many members (including me) have had good dealings with Will make you just about anything Are reasonably priced Are great quality for the money (IMHO)
So yeah. Think about it.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 19, 2012 1:44:01 GMT
I will have a look...
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Post by Kumdoalan on Apr 19, 2012 11:07:05 GMT
I already own a $80 musashi ....
Im looking for a laminated sword for my next sword.
The Ryan Sword seems to be what meets the list of things Im looking for the best. I have contacted the seller of Ryan Swords many times over the last few days asking questions about their sword offered for $400 and so far the answers i get back have impressed me.
Im also looking to get a Saya that has the top part covered in ray skin, as well as a silk wrap on the handle. The things offered my Ryan Sword again meet the list of add-ons that i have in mind as I search for my next sword.
However my mind is not set yet on any one sword seller and so im looking around and taking notes.
The deal with Ryan Swords is that for some reason that seller has gotten a bad reputation , but this seems all based on.....a pile of guess.
I hear guys tell me, that their swords 'must" be crap because of this or that reasons...but so far I have yet to see a guy with a Ryan sword i have on my list that turned out to be crap.
Actually the oppsite is true, if you do a GOOGLE search of the SBG website and past posts dealing with RyanSwords you find a lot, a lot a LOT of our forum brothers are very happy with their Ryan sword, and that it's the best sword in their collection.
I think most of the anti-Ryan Sword talk is based on anything but personal experience. Im seeking someone with personal experience.
Thus the correct thing for me to do is seek out some of the SBG members who have spoken so highly of their ryan sword, and ask them questions as they would be the best people to question.
On a side note, if anyone has a suggestion for a sword that seems to be what im looking for, please let me know. Im looking right now to get a laminated blade, silk wrap, and ray skin on the saya....and the top end I want for this project is in the mid-$400 price range....
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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 19, 2012 14:16:02 GMT
The sword in your price range (other than the one you are currently defending with your life) does not exist.
If you would like to trust an ebay seller's word, over the opinion of the SBG forum (thats SWORD BUYERS GUIDE FORUM, we don't call it that because it sounds good) then go for it, and spend the 400$ on it. You can do a nice review of your experience and take lots of pictures and videos of the sword.
This is starting to remind me of another thread entirely....Can anyone say Sky-jiro forge?
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Post by kasim18 on Apr 19, 2012 14:47:47 GMT
ok, i'm going at this from the viewpoint of a newb. i just bought my first kat, so it's not hard. again, i'm a newb, so if more experienced people say ryanswords are crap, far be it from me to call BS, but i looked on the SBG main page, just as reputable, and the comments from people who actually own the swords seem to be mostly pretty good. i'll just attach the link, let you guys check it out and decide. www.sword-buyers-guide.com/ryan-swords.html
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Post by wolf_shade on Apr 19, 2012 14:51:02 GMT
If you go back through the thread (I have) you can see that people have not given Ryansword a bad reputation based solely on guess. We'll start with the more severe issues and work our way down. First, Ryansword's selling practices are targeted at those excited by buzzwords and hype:
Second, Ryanswords misrepresents what they are selling, or to be nicer, misuses terms.
Third, Ryansword has lower quality offerings in a price range that has better alternatives. This can be seen in pictures of the swords you posted links to.
Fourth, a vendor that offers swords that are of lower quality at exhorbatant prices is now offering a blade that should be higher quality and thus higher priced at a lower price than its competition. That this is bad is guess on the part of the SBG membership. But as ineffableone said.
So overall the opinions of the SBG membership have been substantiated by the evidence you yourself provided.
This is counterintuitive. If a person looks at a product, deems it low quality and higher price than he is willing to pay, he is not going to buy the product. He is not going to have personal experience with it. You have said that you have found people who bought Ryansword items and been happy. The best method at that point is to send them a PM and request additional information and if they are still pleased with the sword. Your current method has been to ask for input and then disparage the input you've received, going so far as to call it uninformed when it is nothing of the sort. Personal experience is not the end all be all of evaluation of products. if it were we'd all be broke because we'd have to buy any sword we felt was low quality just so we could say we had purchased it and verified it was low quality. Again, counterintuitive.
I think that's unfair to Kumdoalan. He's been quite upfront (well, other than starting a cool or crap thread saying he wasn't looking for anything and then saying he's looking for a laminated blade) about his goals. Sky-jiro was about blatant self promotion. Kumdoalan just takes innocent until proven guilty to the extreme.
Kumdoalan, Given that (the innocent until proven guilty thing), I think the only thing that will satisfy you at this point is to purchase the sword. You've already said it's what you wanted. As others have advised; get it, test it, review it, and let us know. Arguing that the opinions of forum members is uninformed and invalid does nothing but insult said forum members that you asked for help.
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