|
Post by stickem on Mar 28, 2012 16:55:02 GMT
Hi all!I this is my first time on the forum. I'll go ahead and admit I know very little about Japanese weapons and this is my first time buying a katana. I wish I had found this forum before I made a purchase instead of now... but it is what it is. So you know a little about me, I have a background in Filipino martial arts, and have practiced with sticks, daggers, and swords for years. We use live blades at times during practice, so I am comfortable with a live blade in my hand. I am not a complete numbskull when it comes to weapons, but have little experience outside of Filipino swords. However, even though I do not practice Japanese arts, I have always wanted a katana, and finally had enough $ not earmarked for other purposes that I just bought one. It has not arrived in the mail yet, and I am having a case of buyer's remorse already. Here's the deal: I was looking for something <$1000, but did not want the cheapest $100-$200 sword I could find. I know that I am not going to get a real, authentic katana in this price range, but I do want to practice with it, so having it fall apart midswing is to be avoided. So from the description of this sword, it appears to be well made and about the best I can do in this price range. I got it for $825. Here it is: www.handmadesword.com/368.html This is the manufacturer's website with listing of sword #368 Here is a video of the sword as well. Somehow I doubt that it is actually a "hand forged, clay tempered, folded" katana with authentic, well-made fittings. But I cannot tell from looking at it whether someone forged/folded this by hand, tempered it with clay, and so on... basically I can't tell if their description of the sword is accurate or complete BS. Yes, I know I should have come here first, but it is what it is. Any opinions and advice you can give me on this sword are appreciated. I have a feeling I may have gotten ripped off, in which case, I'll try to return it to the maker. Again, it has not arrived yet for me to give you a first hand account of it, and I am not a complete idiot... but I am ignorant in the area of how to evaluate Japanese swords and am asking for help. Thanks! ~ Jeff
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Mar 28, 2012 17:09:29 GMT
First off welcome and good job on your first post. I think you got yourself a decent sword, and that yes it will be handforged, clay tempered, and folded. Though handforged probably means not machine stamped and rolled, they probably used power hammers not all hand hammering. Still power hammers are a good thing when used properly. As for folded, really only purpose that has is to give you the hada lines so it is purely cosmetic difference. The modern steels have made no need for folding, though personally I like folded steel myself. As for the clay temper, yes definate that is a true clay temper to get a hamon like that on the blade. I haven't owned one of this company's swords but I have not heard anything bad about them and have heard good reports of their work. I think we all would love to have you post a full review here when you get your sword.
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Mar 28, 2012 17:20:59 GMT
The big difference in katana from $100-$500 is the quality of the blade. Generally the fittings etc are about the same in that range, often you see the same fittings upon the various production pieces. As you get higher toward $300-$500 the quality control is better and the tsuka fit is better, the ito alternates and is tighter, the general quality is better. But the big difference at that price range is in the quality of the blade.
When you go from $500 up to $700-$1000 you get a difference in blades, mainly the polish. A decent polish costs a lot $200-$300. So when you get the $700-$1000 sword your paying for a finer grade of polishing often times, and much better quality control. Your fittings will be much better assembled, more attention will be put into tsuka fitting, ito wrapping, etc. The big difference in $700-$1000 range is attention to details. You find a lot less issues with the sword quality.
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Mar 28, 2012 17:53:56 GMT
+1 on that
And it has a pretty nice looking bo-hi termination. The fittings to appear well made, and all of the same metal. That is a nice plus, probably not cheapo alloy fuchi-kashira. Appears to be a pretty fine level of detail on the fittings. I would not rank that as a rip-off purchase.
|
|
|
Post by stickem on Mar 28, 2012 18:04:50 GMT
Thanks for the fast reply. Whhhheeeeew! That was the sigh of relief blowing the curtains around in my office... Glad to hear the sword may actually be what the maker describes it as being, in which case I'll probably keep it! Thank you for giving me a more experienced eye on this instrument to form a decent evaluation of it. All I knew is it looked good to my untrained eye and the description is similar to what I want. I was hoping to some extent you get what you pay for in this area, but figured some makers would rip off unsuspecting buyers, ignorant folks like me. Your description of the different levels of sword pricing is very helpful By the way, I also enjoy Damascus blades for the grain lines and this is why I picked a folded blade. I have a Damascus blade at home... and a generally good selection of Spydercos on my person at all times I understand the folding is for aesthetic/appearance reasons rather than practical ones. Actually, I just got an engagement ring made for my soon to be fiancée out of this silver and white gold material called mokume gane. The artist who makes these rings says the style came from ornamentation used on samurai swords back in the day. Apparently mokume is patterned after the grains in wood, which I like since I used to work as a carpenter in my former life.This is what really got me going down the road of purchasing a katana... she gets a ring, so it is the perfect time for me to get a sword so she won't object to the $ I spent on it :lol: As you know, I am unfamiliar with most of the terminology used in Japanese swords. I know a hamon line comes from the differential temperatures used when clay tempering a blade... such that the edge is much harder for contact and the spine is softer to absorb recoil and keep the sword from breaking. Nice to know this appears to be a legit hamon instead of that acid etched or wire brushed stuff :cry: Not sure how you all review swords around here, but I'd be happy to give it a try and let you know how it goes. .. My experience with Filipino weapons is they are much simpler and more cave-man practical in general than these fancy katanas, which are elegant and more like works of art. Basically in the Phillipines, a lot of people carry a machete to cut through jungle. Hence, most FIlipino weaponry is made for chopping purposes, not as long a as a katana, and often used at more close quarters. What I usually do is get a sword from somewhere like Kris, which you can find here: kriscutlery.com/documents/philippine.html or a rattan stick from KIL, which you can find here: www.bloodsport.com/then I go out in my back yard where there is this gigantic Rose-of Sharon-bush with lots of beautiful flowers. Then I pick a flower and make it disappear off the bush. This gives me an idea of how the weapon feels in my hand and how accurate I can be with it. I typically use a sinawali style of striking... sinawali means to weave... I guess in Japanese history, Musashi is a good example of someone who used a Japanese sword (one long & one short) in each hand when fighting. So what I do must be somewhat similar, except we usually call it espada y daga. So I have done some full-contact stick fighting with the Dog Brothers, but this will be my first foray into budo or iado... not sure what the proper term for Japanese swordplay is - sorry :shock: I don't usually cut up household items like cans and shoes and the stuff you see people doing on YouTube with their knives... but if you all have any suggestions on good ways to test the blade without destroying it, I'd be happy to hear them and apply them. As I said, I am ignorant. That doesn't mean I'm not willing to learn. I strive to remain teachable in all things...
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Mar 28, 2012 18:24:55 GMT
There is a template in the review section to help get an idea of how to write a review here, you don't need to follow it exact, but it is a helpful guide to cover the basic points. You can look at how others have written their reviews to get an idea also. Template thread forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19Also since your into Filipino weapons you might want to check out the Other Asian Swords section which includes Filipino swords. forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewforum.php?f=42 I am sure others who post in that section would love to get more input from another enthusiast. You can also always do reviews of your Filipino stuff too. Though if it is not a sword you would probably post it in the Other Weapons reviews forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewforum.php?f=33 which covers reviews of other traditional weapons, including daggers, maces, axes, etc
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Mar 28, 2012 18:28:27 GMT
Tatami mats are good for cutting, a bit on the expensive side but they dont scratch the blade up like most household things will, including plastic and wood. I have a KC katana and it is very nice! Iaido, batto & kenjutsu come to mind for japanese fencing. I am pretty new myself with the sword terms. Rose of Sharon make for good enemies, while it is a nice bush they grow more like a weed. Then they will start back up like a weed too! Dang near hack'em to bits and they will be back next year.
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Mar 28, 2012 18:32:52 GMT
|
|
|
Post by stickem on Mar 28, 2012 18:48:08 GMT
Thanks for all the helpful tips. This site is well constructed as far as having resources available - thanks to everyone who makes it happen! The other two swords I am considering buying are the Bugei Peace Sword, which you can see here: bugei.com/peace-sword-1511-prd1.htmand the Tiger Elite Katana, which you can find here: bugei.com/tiger-elite-katana-1320-prd1.htmI didn't buy these initially because of the self-imposed price limit criterion... I figured if I got ripped off I could at least have a cap on the financial damage done. I have a feeling if I like this 1st katana when it comes, there will be more soon to follow... that's the way it always seems to go :lol: What are your ideas and opinions of the two katanas mentioned above? Is either worth spending >$1000 on? Thanks, ~ Jeff
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Mar 28, 2012 19:01:06 GMT
Someone just did a review here of the Peace sword viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10299I am guessing the Tiger Elite has a review here somewhere also but I didn't spot it in a quick glance throgh the review section.
|
|
|
Post by stickem on Mar 28, 2012 19:13:06 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Lobster Hunter on Mar 28, 2012 23:08:26 GMT
Though your new katana seems to be of decent quality, it seems a bit overpriced. The blade shape looks pretty good but the fit & finish seems a bit lacking. First of all, the ito wrapping doesn't alternate. It appears that all of the "Handmade Sword" tsukas are wrapped like this, which is pretty typical of some Chinese kats. The placement of the omote side menuki is also a bit off. Traditionally, it should be placed after the first 3 crossovers, not the first 2. The site also makes no mention of what the ito is made of. It looks suspiciously like chemical fiber to me, which may not bother some people but believe me, "synthetic silk" sucks compared to real silk or good quality cotton. We also don't know what the tsuba is made of either. Is it brass or a cheap & fragile alloy plated to look like brass? I think for the $800+ price, you could expect something with a little more attention to detail. Sorry if I'm being a bit of a stick in the mud. Once this sword arrives, you might be totally happy with it. If not, you could return it and invest your money on a brand with a more proven record for excellence like Bugei for your "nice" katana and/or spend around $300 for a good quality workhorse katana. Just my 2 cents. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by Student of Sword on Mar 29, 2012 0:12:22 GMT
I am in agreement with Lobster Hunter. You did not rip off, but you did not get a good deal either. For the money, you could have gotten a better katana. Look at this site going from cheapest to most expensive: kultofathena.com/swords-katana-price.aspIn that price range, you have the Hanwei Lion Dog, Hanwei Bushido, Hanwei Momo No Saru and many others. Not listed at KOA are Dynasty Forge tri-steel, Ronin Pro Elite. And you certainly could have gotten several very good second handed katana in this forum Classified Sub-Forum. This is subjective, but a similar katana can be had for $600.00 else where. All and all, you did not do too bad. It take a lot of research to find good deal.
|
|
|
Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 29, 2012 6:45:44 GMT
stickem....the problem is for you...that you are seeking real conclusions about the sword and all you find is that a few people can make a guess about your sword based only on it's price, or on the photos....
I have yet to see anyone post about your handmade sword that they had in front of them as they reviewed it.
The "Handmade" brand has just not managed to catch on yet and become as common as other brands.
A while back I was thinking about getting a Handmade Katana, but I changed my mind when I saw all the bad comments about the brand from others. But the trouble is, that no one actually could say that they owned the sword i was thinking about getting. They were objecting to my sword based on it's price and on a few photos of it.
Everyone was guessing. perhaps they are right....perhaps they make a good guess based on years of knowledge? But perhaps they guess wrong too... I dont know... I cant say for sure.
Im not saying the people were right or wrong....I cant tell you for sure if you got a good deal or a bad deal.
The fact is, is that YOU are the only person I know of that actually got this sword...and so the truth is...YOUR WORDS are going to be held as important as to how this sword and this brand name is understood.
So.......I think rather than asking a guy like me "What do you think of my sword?" That you should sit down and have a real close hard look at your sword, and then come back to this forum and write a full Star Spangled review of it......
in other words......You tell me what that sword is like....
Im interested in how you think it stacks up?
Do YOU think its worth the money?....it's your money after all....
Be honest with yourself about the sword.
If you have had doubts about the sword, then admit this so that you will pass this fact on to the next guy so it can become part of how this sword is viewed.
But if you have taken a hard look at this sword, and find that it yet is as good as you were seeking, if you believe its worth every penny, then dont hide this fact too!
Dont be afraid to drag a chair out to the center of the forum, stand on it and beat pots and pans together as you shout..."I own a great sword!"
|
|
|
Post by 6stringseme on Mar 29, 2012 8:18:59 GMT
From the pics on the handmadesword website I see some attempt at a geometric yokote, better than average chinese fittings, and a nice hamon... but no file marks on the nakago, mediocre non-alternating ito, and I'm not sure if I like the bo-hi termination.
Personally, I wouldn't have paid any more than $300 for that sword if it looks just like the pics in the link. But, YMMV. Also, I'm personally not a fan of the "damascus" blades. I have no bias against handmadesword, though - I got my first katana from them, and I have a nice 1060 through hardened "bamboo" wakizashi that I got from them that I dearly love... but both of those were under $100. Handmadesword is a perfectly fine company, but as you quipped "it is what it is"... a reseller of various chinese forged blades - and I happen to think that a lot of their "higher end" swords are quite overpriced.
I recommend you keep this sword since it is your first katana, and just do a lot of research before you buy another. That is unless they will let you return it? If I had $800+ to blow on my first sword(s) I'd buy like 3 or 4 Munetoshis, and cut with the lower cost ones until I felt my form was good enough to risk hurting my more expensive, prettier blades (if I cut with those at all!). But if you're willing to drop $800 on your first sword maybe that kind of money is no big deal for you. If that is the case, there are some very nice offerings in the $500-$1000 range from companies like hanwei, bugei, and others. Welcome to a very addictive and rewarding hobby!
|
|
|
Post by stickem on Mar 29, 2012 10:21:09 GMT
Hey, my sincere thanks to everyone who has replied. Especially Kumdoalan who reminded whether or not I like the sword is the main criterion. It is my $ and I'll be the one playing with it... as Willie S once said, "This above all: to thine own self be true."
And the truth is I just don't have $800 to spend on a sword that I'm going to beat the hell out of. While I have some experience chopping and hacking at things with swords, the machete types of swords I am used to are pretty much impossible to break. For instance, I've used my kukri to chop down trees with... real trees with a 6-8" diameter; however, its a $200 sword and I have a feeling tameshigiri is less forgiving on the sword if/when I screw up a strike...
So what I'm going to do is return the Handmade Sword and use the $825 to get a beater for $200-$300 that will hold up to the abuse of a new learner... suggestions on a katana in this price range that will hold up are appreciated.
And I also will get on the waiting list for the Bugei Peace sword. That one speaks to me...
|
|
|
Post by Chinook Kaze on Mar 29, 2012 10:31:58 GMT
I think you have made a wise choice in returning that rather expensive piece and then starting out with a durable "beater" to gain some experience with. There are a number of swords in the $200 - $300 range that will give you great service, and are surprisingly nice swords too. You might take a peek at some of these: Munetoshi Light Cutter, Mokko, Lion Dog; Ronin Katana Dojo Pro; Cheness Tenchi, Kaze, Mokko; Dynasty Forge Musha line.
You could also have a couple of Musashi 1060 DH katana for just under $200. They are a great value, quite durable as light cutters and you won't be as distressed if you damage one with a bad cut.
Best of luck and welcome to the forum.
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Mar 29, 2012 14:23:56 GMT
Well, my 2 cents, while it handles really bad, and i have heard bad things about their QC, my tenchi took a ton of abuse. I like my dojo pro daisho and they both cut really well. hauwei. hanwei. I like the cheap musashi offerings too. The ones for $80 are well worth their bang for the buck. pretty tough and handle pretty dang good for $80 bucks. I dont think any of these suggestions will come close to your handmade quality wise (dojo pro or hanwei would be the closest), but then again they are just suggestions on what you asked. Tenchi to take the abuse (pretty close to what the khukri took) and an $80 bohi musashi to learn. Or a Dojo Pro to walk the middle of the line with a good handling yet tough sword (not khukri tough though).
|
|
|
Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 29, 2012 14:52:06 GMT
Now we are talking! I have the one lesson now to share with you that I learned in the last few days...In the last 2 or 3 weeks that I have been a member of this forum as I looked for my very first sword in the..............the................same $200 - $300 price range!!!!!
So if you can return the $800 sword and get your money back?.....and if you still want a good sword?
Then my advice is: Buckle up!....this is going to be a wild ride!
I just got off the same ride you are getting on...and here is what I learned: #1 - Ask questions here on this forum site.... ask advice...show us your ideas, tell people what you are looking for and hear their counter ideas.
#2 - Allow people to rip your ideas apart. trust me, it will save you time and money .
As I type this post to you, there is sitting in it's sword stand next to me a FLAWLESS Katana, that is only mine because of the time and wisdom members of this Forum shared with me as I searched for my blade and slowly narrowed path until I found her.
But I had to watch a lot of my ideas for what sword to get being ripped apart as people pointed out flaw after flaw to me that I was clue-free about or simply blind to. And thank God they took the time to rip apart my ideas before I spent money on the real junk I was looking at at times!!!!!
I can't help you much beyond this advice. Others here know so much more than I, for they have years of experience in dealing with the questions and swords you are about to ask about of be suggested.
so all i can say is....."Stick around and post a bunch, you will be glad you did"
(Oh, and never call your own sword a "beater"...trust me it's about to become a very close personal friend that you will have much respect for it.)
|
|
|
Post by Krelian on Mar 29, 2012 17:05:30 GMT
I think returning the Handmadesword is the right choice. While not bad per se it definitely isn't worth $800 (from the pictures and description I'd put it at $300-$400). Buy a Ronin Dojo Pro (~$300) to learn on and save the remaining $500 to put toward a higher-end production sword that's actually worth its price tag (like the Bugei Peace Sword ~$1600).
|
|