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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Mar 29, 2012 17:42:20 GMT
id just keep a spare SLO with me and when i engage the polearm user ill swing at him with my BudK sword, the tang will fail and the helecopter of death will part my enemy like...MOSES THROUGH THE RED SEA!
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Post by doctorbanana on Mar 29, 2012 17:59:45 GMT
If the naginata dude looks a bit fatter than you, better off running and climbing away like a semprini id say. The naginata guy wont be running and climbing as fast as you especially while he's forced to hold onto a long and cumbersome object, while you have your own sword sheathed. Or Possibly run to an area that gives a sword person a tactical advantage.
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Post by Google on Mar 29, 2012 18:03:40 GMT
that is a lovely thing to say, but very stupid to follow literally. the goal of martial arts is to win with no damage to yourself. if your only option is to hurt yourself, it's better to run away.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Mar 29, 2012 19:20:32 GMT
In the situation, you are pretty much dead already. You might as well take the other guy with you.
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 29, 2012 19:22:39 GMT
Run, climb, big rock, big drop & naginata next to unconscious weilder.
Not at that point in their society. Given the situation, running away might cost you all your belongings, household and the honor attached to the name. Better to get killed and retain enough honor which will keep your wife and kids under a roof. otherwise you will be committing harikiri to keep them in a shack on the bad side of town.
This day and age there is a lot more leeway, I will die before allowing a loved on to be hurt. Most bad situations do not happen in the dojo. And of course in keeping with this thread, and the real reason I re-iterate my point, short/no weapon vs long weapon, get in there quick. be it naginata and sword, pipe and a unarmed or even rifle and knife. I would love to see you outrun a bullet.
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Post by Derzis on Mar 29, 2012 21:56:13 GMT
Next time you and your partner act as one against naginata guy. One might be suicidal but two swords against one pole arm -when is strategy involved- can overcome.
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Post by Google on Mar 29, 2012 23:06:59 GMT
The romantic code of bushido was not followed to the letter as some would like to think. Acts of cowardly nature were common. People are people.
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Post by Student of Sword on Mar 30, 2012 0:42:21 GMT
There is nothing wrong with live and fight another day. Samurai were not stupid. They retreated when they had to. Fighting to the bitter end only happened when they had nothing left -- the last castle and nowhere else to go.
Imagine you are the Lord. A satellite castle is not defensible anymore. Would you want your retainers to retreat or die? You would want them to retreat because you want to preserve your forces to retake the castle in the future. You would be upset if the stupid retainers decide to fight to the death. Now, you loose valuable manpower. A salvageable situation (i.e. your domain still safe) all sudden become unsalvageable (your domain is at risk) because your retainers decided to die for no good reason.
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 30, 2012 14:41:57 GMT
I am talking about the 2 retainers ordered to stay behind to cover the retreat. Nor would I assume that stuff was followed to the letter, but enough to where it was still strong in their culture well into the 1900's.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Mar 30, 2012 14:46:02 GMT
Anyways, the bushido code has really nothing to do with naginata vs. katana duels. If you were in the situation, you'd just have to do what feels right. I'm sure a lot of honorable samurai lost their lives defending against attackers with naginata, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
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Post by Dalaran1991 on Mar 30, 2012 19:18:27 GMT
The naginata is, after all, a great equalizer it seems. Even a moderately trained man could pose a danger to an expert swordman. And to think that samurai women defended their villages with that stuff when their men were gone...yeah just don't f**k with a japanese chick (literally) I love the spirit of bushido. It's a great philosophy to live with, which started me on the kenjutsu and aikido path in the first place. It's the way it is applied that is questionable to me. I remembered watching a TV show about some 300 samurais, realizing that they couldn't defend their lord's castle, retreat to the inner hall and all commit suicide together. Seriously man... :shock: Look what the Spartans did with 300 :lol:
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 30, 2012 21:09:40 GMT
Well, that's just another cultural difference. To Spartans, better to be killed in battle than anywhere else; to some samurai, better to die by one's own hand than another's.
But naginata...yeah, run away.
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Post by Derzis on Mar 30, 2012 21:35:30 GMT
It's more nuance in that: better to die in honor than captured and tortured.
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 30, 2012 22:29:14 GMT
Not to add to the off topic this tries to veer, I am just as guilty. But, to the OP. Throw bokken at him and rush. If you think sensei will be that pissed, just rush and try to block blade with sword as you do. I keep saying thats the way to go about it, just from getting jumped with baseball bats when younger. If you make it to hand on hand combat often or not, let us know. If you lose on the inside, that's on hand to hand skills, not naginata vs sword.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 30, 2012 22:40:27 GMT
As the discussion has evolved a bit, I might just throw few adds to it.
The old bushido and current idea of bushido are two different things. In the old days samurai did not think surrender as an urforgivable deed, they could even switch sides. If a fight was lost he would retreat to live for the next fight, like Student of the Sword mentioned earlier. Some people who have examined the old texts say that samurai who fought to the death were lot rarer than we today think.
Trying to picture the scenario better, are you armored, is he armored? Or as I suppose you both are unarmored?
I would actually advice clinging onto your sword, as I strongly doubt you would gonna succeed in killing him with one sword throw.
As for your sparring, just be careful if sparring with wooden weapons like I said earlier, as you are free sparring, there is bigger chance of something unexpected to happen.
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Post by Student of Sword on Mar 30, 2012 22:55:38 GMT
Not only did a samurai switched side. He often killed his Lord to usurp the position. If the Lord died and has young son, the retainer had no problem killing the child to eliminate potential rivals. The whole Bushido Code was a figment of imagination of an idealistic samurai who lived in later time. In time of war and chaos, idealists rarely survived.
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Post by Dalaran1991 on Mar 31, 2012 12:44:28 GMT
Uhm my sensei is pretty lenient but I'm pretty sure if I throw bokken then my head will be at the receiving end of sensei's jo very soon. I could throw my training tanto though. It's plastic.
Which brings up the point. We forget that in real time both people will have a sidearm, more likely a tanto or a katana, so even if you manage to get past the naginata's arc you could still get in trouble with him pulling out the knife and stab you in the gut.
Apparently the old samurais were pretty well armed then. I wonder just how good they were in combat. Would they be generally much better than a black belt? Or it could vary greatly with the samurai in question.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2012 14:06:21 GMT
Have you tried "your shoelace is untied " ? :lol:
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Post by zentesukenVII on Mar 31, 2012 14:38:30 GMT
LOL! Good one man.
And I often wonder too. Like I was saying before about naginata being very tiresome. If I fight three people on all sides of me wit a naginata I have to whip that thing from one side to the other to keep them all away..Well I imagine after doing that training every day for my whole life, and then doing it in actual battle. Not to mention training with various other weapons that require physical strength to wield proficiently, I am pretty sure I would be abele to rip a US Marine's head off with my bare hands.
Seriously, I'm pretty sure these guys were extremely physically fit when they were around they're 16-25 area. When they got older and were more skilled I'd iagine they would not do as much vigorus training as they know strategy more than anything now. They say the most dangerous samurai was a samurai in his 50's.
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Post by Derzis on Mar 31, 2012 15:51:13 GMT
If you are talking Average Joe, from what I read, no. But what was different for trained samurai is that they were trained not just in the art of sword.
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