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Post by Dalaran1991 on Mar 29, 2012 11:38:45 GMT
Thanks everyone for all the replies. I'm not surprised if someone says it's night impossible to beat naginata with one single katana. My friend once fought 2 of us at the same time and my other partner was a good swordman too, and still the naginata came out on top. The only problem I have with the katas where the katana won is that, well, they are katas. You know what is coming. Of course the techniques are there but in reality the naginata is much much more unpredictable to apply them. Not to mention the naginata can be used against cavalry and in group. Was it expensive to create one though? I'll definitely look in the links about WWI and poleweapons interesting stuff there. A side question: among pole weapons, which is better, YARI or NAGINATA?
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 29, 2012 12:53:08 GMT
de-ja vu all over again! I wouldnt focus on cutting anything specific. I would forget I have a sword in my hand, instead I have a hunk of metal to keep me from losing an arm on my way in. I would not even care if the sword makes it in with me, just as long as I make it face to face, body to body, having numerous points of contact. Outside of semi-automatic or automatic guns, ranged weapons have nothing when you are toe to toe. The worlds most powerful trebuchec cannot harm the man standing beside it. Muzzle loaders are hard to load and arrows are hard to nock when someone is hitting you in the face. Bad part though, in the transistion period they have a much greater upperhand.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 13:09:23 GMT
I can only speak of what I know of certain koryu, but in a kata where the katana wins against a nahinata, the intention is to teach the swordsman the correct moves and timing to apply that technique against a naginata. In the sword forms, the sword always wins against the other weapons to teach the learner how to apply the technique properly, that's all. Rightly said, kata are training forms, and yes, opponents of any sort are unpredictable! Not sure how expensive it was to create a naginata though. With yari vs naginata, the naginata appeared possibly around the 11th century and became very popular in the 12th century, because during this time cavalry was used widely and was very important in Japanese warfare. Naginata was effective in taking out cavalry horse legs and the fallen riders afterwards. It could also sweep large areas of the battlefield when swung and had a great advantage against swordsmen. By the 14th century, warfare tactics had changed, in the Nanpokucho Era (1334-1393), the focus switched to foot soldiers instead of cavalry, after the Japanese with their cavalry based tactics suffered heavy losses against the Mongol invaders in the late 3th century who fought in massed formations, and the yari generally replaced the naginata because it allowed foot soldiers to fight in close massed formation, and was easier to train soldier to use the yari. The naginata needs a large area to swing around in warfare, which means that soldiers can't fight in close formation, so it was not favourable to this new form of more efficient massed infantry warfare. So, it's kind of hard to say which is 'better', the yari replaced the naginata because it was definitely better when used in a setting of a massed infantry, but one-on-one combat would be a hard one to call. I can only think they have the same reach, and a yari's thrust if faster than a naginata's swing as it takes a shorter path, a yari is very fast and unpredictable, where the naginata's swing is more slower and it cannot change direction as easily... I'm guessing a yari would possibly be better in one on one combat, but that's just my speculation. Curious to know what others think.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Mar 29, 2012 13:32:01 GMT
be an epic friggin badass, let him impale you in the chest, grab hold of the shaft and pull it through you until hes nice and close, for reasons unknown he wont let go of the naginata and youl have him trapped, now just yell I GOT YOU NOW MOTHER &^%$#$ and cut him down. Then seek medical assistance immediately, or prepare to take your place among yourancestors in Valhalla
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 13:43:09 GMT
It would be a quick trip to Valhalla, the bloody guard is too big on the naginata to slide up the shaft! :lol: Then again, you could do the viking thing and throw spear over the enemy at the beginning of a battle shoutings "Odin take you all", the ancient custom to bring good luck - but aim a bit lower so it doesn't go over your enemy but hits them square on, and all your good luck will come at once! Then you can delay the trip to Valhalla for a more glorious encounter!!! :lol:
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 29, 2012 13:54:49 GMT
I just watch the way of the warrior episode on aikido/kendo and they had a little blub about naginata in there. Give it a peep, from what i saw in there, a lot less of a big swing, and more small movements. Kinda like the extra curve of the blade is made to get better cuts with less swing. Not saying they are faster than yari or great for hallways, but definately have a better performance than the two previous respective posts made it sound in my ears. Not saying anything on the posts either, i just got my eyes opened a bit more about the naginata's usage after watching the episode.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 14:02:05 GMT
It's a cutter whereas the yari is a thruster, but hope I didn't give the wrong impression, you don't whirl the naginata like a helicopter blade, they incorporate wide sweeps as well as short slices!
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 29, 2012 14:30:56 GMT
Yea, not just your comments, but the general shape of it alone had me thinking of a really long sword. To see them ladies flipping it around and such. It was eye opening as to how much, and how often they used it in a shorter range.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Mar 29, 2012 15:08:34 GMT
Saito, you never cease to make my day with your psychosis. You would be a very formidable opponent to whoever you fought first, because in the process of killing him/scarring the semprini out of him, you would die. Because you just stabbed the guy who came up behind you, by stabbing yourself through the gut, impaling you both. That being said: sempriniin. Anyyways.... I feel like a yari would be much easier to get around than a naginata. Because for a nag, however logn the blade is is another 20 some odd inches you need to get around. If you are inside that 20 some odd inches, you are practically a dead man. For a yari, you have to pretty much be out of its range to be in severe danger. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of ways to kill a guy without a direct yari thrust. But all in all I'd be more scared to fight a naginata. That being said, I actually think Yari are cooler. Idk why. Especially the ones with three edges, all DH sooo cool. Still this would be the best.
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Post by Dalaran1991 on Mar 29, 2012 15:12:33 GMT
uhmm, am I missing out on something? I think the naginata is deadly in thrust. It sure can chop like crazy but I actually got more trouble with the pointed end being suddenly shoved up my face or thrust to my stomach rather than the swings. At least those swing you see them coming and thus can either evade/deflect.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 15:36:52 GMT
Its a cutter that can thrust, in the same way that the yari is a thruster that can cut, optimised for one function, but quite capable of performing the other too! There's not much difference in the length of a yari and naginata blade: Hanwei Yari - overall length of 79" and a blade length of 16 3/4“ Hanwei Naginata - overall length of 76 3/4“ and a blade length of 20 1/4“ The Yari is a tad longer, and the naginata blade is only 3 1/2" longer, less than the width of the palm of your hand. Mind you, the Yari blade is over 16" of double edged razor sharp differentially hardened steel identical to a sword blade (with a hamon on either side ) so it has twice the number of planes of cutting than a single edged blade.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Mar 29, 2012 15:40:11 GMT
No your dead right! More often than not, I will be dodging and deflecting strikes from the naginata, and then try and advance on my attacker, only to run straight into the blade and impale myself in the chest!
Of course the naginata is a stabbing weapon as much as it is a slashing weapon, but the Yari stabs a lot better. Because It is designed to get through the armor and penetrate the enemy. As opposed to a naginata, which is for mainly slashing the enemies horse and legs, then progress to cut him down.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Mar 29, 2012 15:40:33 GMT
Yes, you stole my post.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 15:44:37 GMT
Whoops!
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Mar 29, 2012 16:07:36 GMT
Ya know what? I actually enjoy Saito's post and agree with his method.... though a bit "last ditch". Let's face it, if you're facing a naginata or polearms whose user was quite good at it, even an expert swordsman would have to fight desperately. Sword throwing or simply give up something for a double-kill could be considered a victory already.
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Post by lamebmx on Mar 29, 2012 16:15:14 GMT
Naginata or yari pwnd lol
Please remember this is a joke post, have a laugh!
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Mar 29, 2012 16:18:26 GMT
Seriously, that's NOT a joke. That's a legitimate technique.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Mar 29, 2012 16:24:17 GMT
i guess if you know for a fact your going to die, why not take him with you eh? although i wasnt being serious of course, ive just seen it in sooo many movies and i cant help but ask myself WHY DOESNT THE SPEAR GUY JUST LET GO!?!?! hes already impaled you, he knowes your going to die, but he holds onto the spear as if it was glued to him and then allows himself to be cut down....example
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Post by Google on Mar 29, 2012 16:35:09 GMT
Not the way it was performed in the video... Real technique, but this specific video is joke. Also, double-kill is bad, as you die and that's counter-productive,
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Post by zentesukenVII on Mar 29, 2012 17:02:31 GMT
"No sword? Use a stick! No stick? Use a rock! No rock? Use your firsts and feet! Lose your life, but make the enemy PAY!"
Seriously though, throwing a sword is dangerous, but It actually seems like a good skill to learn for a warrior. Musashi did it, and he's my rolemodel so I'll take his word for it. Although I'd throw the shoto, not my daito.
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