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Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 13, 2012 5:13:39 GMT
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Post by frankthebunny on Mar 13, 2012 5:19:34 GMT
when sellers and manufacturers like this mention damascus they are referring to folded steel. it's just a tag line and nothing more.
Edit: for clarification
I meant that when sellers like the one linked use the term "Damascus", the metal is really just the same folded steel that you see mentioned by other sellers of production katana. if you see this term being used for production Euro swords, it might be referring to pattern welded. I'm actually not even sure "pattern welded" is something specific or if applies in general to mean any folded steel. is the dynasty forge 1095 folded steel bushi katana considered pattern welded? is the viking pictured below considered "folded steel" or "pattern welded"? I'm pretty sure the viking blade was three separate sections welded together to form a pattern. anyone know?
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Greg
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Post by Greg on Mar 13, 2012 5:25:29 GMT
Damascus is a misnomer actually. The proper term is called "pattern weld" and it creates a design in the actual metal of the blade that looks like this: Do you see how the metal looks a little like the grain of wood? That shows that two different sorts of metal were heated up, hammered out, folded/twisted, hammered out, folded/twisted, etc. Don't buy into the "it's a better blade because we did it." Steel today is more homogeneous today then the steel back in the day. This basically means that the carbon is evenly distributed. Back then, they would fold the blade out many times to more evenly distribute the carbon. So, today, it's only a "looks better" thing. It's not "makes the blade sharper/durable/able to slice through steel" It's only for looks.
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Mar 13, 2012 5:31:43 GMT
josh is right,true damscus steel is a long forgotten art,thats pattern welded blades your looking at and as greg pointed out they offer no advantage to modern steels,i do love a nice pattern welded viking blade though
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Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 13, 2012 12:34:24 GMT
Oh, ok, I know pattern welded. I have seen how guys can forge a blade with many layers of very thin steel and then grind the sides down to show off the different layers.
I have seen guys do this effect with a stack of used metal strapping bands .
Thanks for the information. I was thinking yesterday when i saw the term "Damascus" that it might be a term that was just talking about the spotted look of some real Damascus blades from history. I was afraid that Damascus was just the result of an acid etch.
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Post by chuckinohio on Mar 13, 2012 13:35:01 GMT
Forge folding starts with a piece of steel that is drawn out, folded back on itself, and then forge welded to be made homogenous. Pattern welding usually starts with a stack of different pieces of steel that are forge welded together to make them homogenous. The only difference is whether you start with one piece of steel, or several pieces of different alloy. Forge folding as it is referred to usually gives you lighter differentiation between the layers, while pattern welding, due to the different alloys, gives a more sharply contrasting effect between the layers. The twisted core technique with a homogenous edge consists of pattern welded pieces that are subsequantly forge welded together.
What many consider to be true 'Damascus' steel, is commonly referred to as 'Wootz' in todays world. It is made by smelting.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Mar 13, 2012 13:47:22 GMT
YES!...thats it...i remember now better. When I saw the term being used "Damascus" I was afraid it was a poor acid etched effect to make a blade look like some of the Wootz i have seen....
The Wootz blades i have seen first hand were spotty...the blades had dark freckles
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Post by chuckinohio on Mar 13, 2012 14:04:33 GMT
Correct, Wootz blades have a very fine pattern to them and are readily distinguished for what they are.
The pattern comes from the different elements going into suspension and alloying together during the smelting process.
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Post by chrisperoni on Mar 13, 2012 15:43:59 GMT
:twisted: all those posting in this thread now owe the sum of half their lifetime earnings to "you-know-who-wink-wink"; for the mere mention of the word we dare not speak.
...They are listening right now...patents and legal team at the ready...
:twisted:
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Mar 13, 2012 16:59:22 GMT
good luck trying to sue me :lol: you'd need an angel wielding some kind of super steel sword to get anything worthwhile from my bank account
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Lunaman
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Post by Lunaman on Mar 13, 2012 19:30:41 GMT
As people have already said, 99% of the time it's just a marketing buzzword to mean pattern-welded steel, often with a light etch to enhance the color differences between the folded steel types, like this: For reference, here's what ACTUAL damascus steel looked like, from the shamshir of Ranjit Singh (1780-1893). They don't make 'em like this anymore. The look comes from the inherent patterning of the crucible steel itself, not from folding multiple steel types together.
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