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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 17:11:54 GMT
Hi there,
I'm new to this forum so I think I should introduce myself: I'm from Germany and a Iaidoka and Kendoka for nearly 1 1/2 years now. The rules of our Dojo state that we can train with a Katana when we pass an exam (showing Kata). In several days I hopefully will pass the exam and am therefor looking for a Katana or iaito. I would prefer a Katana - don't ask me why or start an intense discussion about it please I've reflected and am reflecting over this decision and it's not a final conclusion yet... My question is: I need a really light Katana, it should weigh around 700g, or let's say between 600 and max. 800 g. The most non-customized katana are around 1 kg. I also need the 2,3(5) shaku blade-lenght but I find that with many customized Katana. Can you make a Katana as light as that? Or is there now way and I should focus on a Iaito (Iwould do so with a bleeding heart I must admit)? Can you recommend some trustworthy shops (aside from SBG, I'm waiting for the batch 19) where I can get my specifications? I'm also very distinct (I hope that's the right word for what I mean...) with the selection of Saya colour, Tsuba design, etc. I'd like to decide myself, which picture and therefor meaning I have on my Tsuba. I discovered for myself, that a non-customized would'nt be MINE, if you know what I mean...not in the way the other would be. But all of these aspects shouldn't be too expensive, I can't or don't like to go up to 1000 dollars for my first one. So, I admit, in some aspects my mind isn't made up yet, but I feel like I'd need some help, where to find THE shop, I can trustfully purchase. And I would be glad to get some advise from katana-owners which details I should consider before buying.
Thanks very much,
Greetings from Germany, Honey
P.S.: Whats with the SBG Katana? How light can they be? Can I choose all the details?
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Post by grmnsplx on Feb 22, 2012 18:13:53 GMT
I wouldn't go for an SBG katana. These are budget cutting swords, in my opinion, and would likely not have the best balance or fit for iaijutsu training. Note that I have no experience with these swords but do with swords from the same source. I recommend going with a custom sword from Tozando. Here is a blade length/bladetype/weight chart: www.tozandoshop.com/help_options.asp?ID=164Tozando now offers extra light blades so I am sure you can find something suited for you. www.tozandoshop.com/Tozando_Cust ... -it999.htm
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 21:47:32 GMT
Hi grmnsplx,
thanks for the answer. I just looked at the tozando homepage. I saw ist before when I was google-searching for custom-katana. But the problem is, that the super light blades come with nearly no option to customize. I'm one step from making this a gender issue: Just because I'm a (small) woman and need a light katana I can't choose my own beautiful tsuba!! Ok, of course I'm joking, but I just don't want flowers as decoration for my katana... The weight chart though is helpful! The lenght of the blade has so much to do with the weight?! I'm asking because on some pages the weight description didn't change at all from 2.3 up to 2.45 shaku!
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Post by grmnsplx on Feb 22, 2012 23:56:45 GMT
Go to the last link I posted. you can build a custom sword there. The extra light blades are an option, so you're good to go.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 10:51:49 GMT
Hi again,
yes, the last link didn't load yesterday so I tried with the homepage and found a different lightweight customized Iaito. Your link is a Iaito with much more possibilities. But with the details I would like I go up to 900 dollars! Is it worth this much? Is it that good? I'm aiming for a leather tsuka, is it recommendable?
And I found a japanese site for customized Iaito (and Katana, but they're awfully expensive): nosyudo.jp Does anyone know them? Do they ship to Europe or US? Since the page has no english translation it seems no.....
Have a nice day.
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Post by LastGodslayer on Feb 23, 2012 12:23:55 GMT
The one in the last link that grmnsplx posted really seems to be in the ballpark, both price and quality wise. I haven't read any reviews about the extra light iaito, but Tozando are a well reputed company. You might want to check if the guys from Yamato Budogu can make you something like that too.
If you are looking for a iaito, then try and shoot an email to Yoshihiro Hitomi from Budoya, a Spanish rep for one of the larger iaito manufacturers. He has a custom option "build your iaito", but you can always email him just to check if he can get you what you are looking for.
As for a live blade, a katana that is, you probably need to go the full custom route, from one of the Chinese forges, or be getting a smaller blade like a Bamboo Stick katana mounted by someone here in the EU. Try PM'ing Kaiyo if you are interested in getting something from overseas. He had a couple of custom ebay kats, and since he lives in Germany too, he can probably give you an idea of taxes and stuff.
If you are actually looking to get some custom fittings done, I can recommend Charles Wu (a friend of mine).
Hope it helps.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 15:06:39 GMT
Hi,
thanks for all the information! How can I reach Kaiyo? Is he (or she) from the forum here? Taxes will be a topic.... or an issue, I'll see. I'm really spneding some time these days with the search because after I ordered a sword I'll have to wait for a pretty long time for it and my Iaido exam is coming very soon. Of course after that I would like to use a Iaito or Katana.
Do you think I can be happy with a Chinese customized for starters? I will have to stay with the customized ones since I need some features (lenght, Bo-hi, tsuka-lenght etc.) anyway, so I can't aim for a real budget ready-made Katana or Iaito. But I'm a bit hesitant to spend soooo much for the first one. I would think, in my lifetime, there could be a second or third one... What did you spend for your Katanas?
What do you guys think of leather Tsuka? Feels good? And: does a second bohi reduce the weight too? Considerably or marginally?
Thanks, greetings, Melanie (Honey)
Ah, P.S.: I saw the bamboo katana but I really don't like them at all....
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Post by johnwalter on Feb 23, 2012 15:13:06 GMT
I personally prefer Tsunami(suede)over leather.Feels more secure in a sweaty hand. I had a Bamboo Stick katana,very light blade.
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Post by LastGodslayer on Feb 23, 2012 21:47:17 GMT
I just thought of the Bamboo Stick because it is a smaller and lighter blade, that might be mounted into something close to what you are looking for. You'd just use the blade (and maybe rework the saya into something more conventional) Since you want bo-hi, it wont work.
Kaiyo is a forumite here and you can look him up in the search bar I believe.
Personally, I dislike leather ito since it gets slippy. Then again, I've only handled super thin leather ito and not the good quality kind. I hear Tsunami is great since it provides a strong grip and quite a bit of tactile feedback. Still, I'm a sucker for silk.
To be honest, the Tozando super light iaito is pretty much what you are looking for. Its very hard to match the build quality of the japanese iaito maker. It is the safe bet, and it might be a bit expensive for a iaito, but its probably still worth the money. Nosoyudo.jp have made some interesting steel iaito. I beleive there is a recent review on sword forum international.
If you are looking for a katana, either you find a good blade (Dynasty Forge, Hanwei, Ronin Blade, etc.) and have it mounted, or you take a chance with one of the most sought after chinese forges like ZhiSword, Huawei, Sinosword, or with one of the eBay sellers that are making interesting things with their blades like wild choji hamon.
I spent close to 600€ with my odachi by Sinosword, including a custom made tsuba, fittings from Yamato Budogu, and shipping. Had I gone with only the "in forge" options it would have run under 300€ with shipping. If you go this route, you'll always be taking a chance, and even if you get a great sword, it probably won't have the overall quality level of a japan made iaito. What you can do, is get a blade made to your specifications, and then spend the rest of your budget, having it mounted by someone capable, and either get aftermarket kodogu or if your budget allows, have it custom built.
As for bo-hi: A deeper hi will lighten the blade a bit more, and double hi will lighten it a bit further, but in a much less noticeable way. If you want the hi for the tachikaze, then it has to be properly (sharply) polished to make the loudest sound.
My advice: Since it is for martial arts, I'd get a quality iaito like the one from Tozando. If you have to get a shinken, then look for a non custom blade first (to save time), or get it custom made if nothing is what you are looking for, and have it mounted in the EU. I'd recommend Jeffrey Ching from The Samurai Workshop if he is not too busy.
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Post by grmnsplx on Feb 23, 2012 22:39:07 GMT
I totally agree with LastGodslayer (above).
If you want to pimp out your sword, you have to pay. And $900 is not an unreasonable abount to pay for a well made iaito, in my opinion.
Personally, I do not like leather ito. I have a higher end (slightly pimped out) iaito with leather ito. looks great, but it's a bit slippery. I recommend cotton as it is inexpensive and very comfortable. Silk is great too, but it costs more.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2012 14:17:17 GMT
Soooo, hi everyone Thank you very much for your advice! Especially the comment about the amount one can spend for a quality Iaito - it's good to know I'm not crazy wanting that I spent much time searching the net for alternatives (thank you LastGodslayer) and have come to the conclusion that I rather want a Japanese Iaito than a Chinese Katana. Zhisword has dazzling options for a nearly bargain price, but when you look closer you see the differences also in the small things between them and a japanese forgery like tozando and nosyudo. I might have a connection to nosyudo since they don't deliver outside Japan. But it's not sure yet. Does anyone of you have a connection to place an order at nosyudo? And I have one more question: Which features show me I have a cheap katana (or Iaito) in my hands? Is it rattling of the blade in the habaki or a badly balanced blade? Or is it just that I can't do the cutting test? What does it feel like to have a cheap katana, on the other hand what does it feel like to have a good one? I know, own experience is best, but I'd like to save the money for the bad ones Since I haven't had any Iaito or Katana in my hands (only for a practice short time twice) I have really no experience. I'd like to recognize the difference when I (perhaps) try some or have my future own Iaito Thanks and have a nice Sunday, Honey
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Post by LastGodslayer on Feb 26, 2012 15:15:41 GMT
Not wanting to redirect you away from our lovely forum, but you can look up info on Nosyudo on sword forum international. One thing I've learned when buying things from japanese shops and craftsmen is that usually the price may be high compared to low cost alternatives, but it is reasonable by itself since the japanese take pride in making things the highest quality possible for what they charge you. I love dealing with the japanese because of this. A properly made iaito or shinken has practically no rattling since all the components are perfectly adjusted to each other. The individual quality of each component is a great indicator of the overall quality of the sword. There are apparently notable exceptions like thaitsuki nihonto where the fittings are gorgeous but their blades have had problems and the fit of things can be off. Since nowadays iaito blades are cast, so are all the fittings, and so the habaki fit is solid but sometimes gaps are visible. In a badly made sword the habaki will be shimmed or will fit the blade poorly, and might move around with every move, which is a clear warning sign that the sword wasn't put together correctly. The balance is a tricky question to answer since it depends on many factors, but Iaito makers get it right for most people more than most chinese forges. They have been in this business for a long time. Things like polish quality are hard to judge in iaito, but rounded shinogi, wavy or of center mune, warped edge, wavy shallow and rounded bohi, and improperly or over or under hardened/tempered blades are indicators of a cheaply made (but not necessarily cheap ) katana. The fit and finish of the saya, especially around the koiguchi area, are great indicators of the quality of the sword itself. Flaking saya, rattles and "loose" koiguchi are common on cheaply made katana. The samegawa in iaito is typically much better than what you get in chinese made swords, the ito is of higher quality and is properly wrapped on the tsuka. Believe me, this is important because that will be the most worn part of any sword. The cutting test actually is a bad way to judge the quality of a sword. If your technique is good enough, a lower quality blade might be enough for you, but then again, if you get a razor thin hirazukuri katana you can cut through tatami even if your technique is poor. There are many more differences between good and bad katana. You should read the reviews in the forum. They are generally positive, but you'll quickly pick up on whats wrong. Hope it helps
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 13:51:35 GMT
Hi LastGodslayer,
yes, it helped! Very much indeed. I did a lot of thinking and talked to my sensei again, and the result is: I'm definitely looking for a Iaito. It'll be from Tozando the extra-light blade like you first suggested or yamatobudo, the Bishamonten (but I have to talk to them about the weight of their blade) or a Iaito from Nosyudo. I'm getting their catalogue in two weeks time - luckily I have japanes connections, my friend will bring it with her to Germany. Does anyone have experience with nosyudo? NOT nosyuiaido - they split up into swordsore and nosyudo and even on the Sword Forum international the experiences were from before the split-up. Does anyone know their price-range?
And does anyone know sth. about yamatobudogu? I'm not getting an answer from them for a week now, and that was the second message I left them (different questions). Do they have problems or does it take them always this long or don't they like me???
I didn't find any Iaito topic here...couldn't there be one? Or is the main interest of this forums' users just Katana?
Again many questions.... :oops:
Good day to you all, Honey
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Post by Krelian on Mar 2, 2012 21:45:49 GMT
Excellent! I really think an iaito is the best choice.
I've heard nothing but positive things about the quality of Nosyudo's products but poor things about their high-level business practices though I've never held one in person. Like most iaito makers their prices range depending on if you're purchasing a "stock" model or something custom but in general they are more expensive than Tozando and Yamato Budogu but have more options and details available.
One of my dojo members just received her first iaito from Yamato Budogu in early January this year. It's one of their Yamato Series, Special Koshirae models and not a Bishamonten. None the less, it's VERY well crafted and assembled and although it's far too light for me it's still very solid and sturdy feeling. I don't believe she had much trouble communicating with them but I didn't specifically ask.
Iaito topics do come up here from time to time but it is uncommon since so few of us here study formal Japanese swordsmanship and the original focus of the forum is on sharp swords costing $300USD and less. It's unusual to find good iaito for less than $300USD... A few of us here DO love discussing iaito but the search engine here never seems to be very good at searching out those threads (or many other things for that matter).
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Post by grmnsplx on Mar 2, 2012 22:57:13 GMT
Nosyudo are generally considered excellent. You will pay a premium to Tozando and Yamato, but it's worth it. But as mentioned above, both Yamato and Tozando make very good swords.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 9:35:07 GMT
Good morning all One more question because their site is still open in a tab of my browser: Does swordshop.com make Iaitos in the same quality as the above mentionend, as Tozando, Yamato and Nosyudo? They're cheaper.... And they did work together with nosyudo, didn't they? Some people say - especially in the International Sword Forum - they all use the same blades. I don't really believe it. Good day to you all, greetings, Honey
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Post by LastGodslayer on Mar 3, 2012 12:16:23 GMT
As for the quality of the swordstore iaito I cannot say as I have not handled one. There is a great review somewhere around here. About Nosyudo and Swordstore: I never got the story straight but there was some sort of falling out between the two companies which let to some sort of ban in the USA. No idea really. As for all the iaito blades being the same: Since they are cast (all aluminum blades are cast, unless someone is grinding them out of a solid bar of aluminum which would be more expensive), odds are that the same foundry makes blades for more than on iaito manufacturer. It might be a stretch to claim that they are all the same, but if you think about it, the kodogu is cast as well and it is pretty much the same throughout all the manufacturers. Odds are, a specific manufacturer has their own variant of the blades made at said foundry (super light, heavier or thicker, more flexible, etc), but the "regular" blades are probably all the same. I hope someone can clarify this a bit more for you Honey (heh heh... Such a misleading forum name :lol: ). Lets us know what you decide, and of course, please post a review when you get it
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Post by grmnsplx on Mar 3, 2012 14:40:16 GMT
I was very unhappy with my swordstore purchase. Note that the relationship between swordstore and Igarashi (nosyudo) is irreparably damaged and swordstore does not sell their swords any more.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 17:10:49 GMT
Thanks grmnsplx for your experience, sorry that you had to make it, but I'm distancing myself from byuing there - I was anyway going for nosyudo or yamato or tozando as I mentionend earlier, but their prices are lower and their tab was still open in my browser...., so I gave it a last thought. That's done now I think. And LastGodslayer, why is my forum name misleading? For this forum in specific? or don't you think it suits a woman doing Iaido and Kendo? Anyway, I think it would be nice to know, where the blades come from, because some shops claim very high standards and charge you for that, and all in all it's the same as another possibly cheaper shop has to offer?! That's not so nice for the customers. But I think I read, that nosyudo is making or getting made their own blades. We'll see. I will definitely post my experiences of my Iaito purchase here! But most likely it'll take several weeks before I really have it considering the production time and I haven't ordered so far. (But I zero in on it )
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Post by LastGodslayer on Mar 3, 2012 19:54:44 GMT
Ah, about that: I just meant that, for instance, if my girlfried were to hear/read me saying to another woman something like "I hope that helps honey", she would kick me in the face . Its actually one of the cutest forums names I have ever heard and I'm surprised no one had thought of it first... Nice to hear you are going with one of those companies. I love Yamato Budogu. They always feel extremely helpful. It is annoying that for the same blade, different companies will charge differently, but some of them work a bit more on the polish of the blade. My brother has a iaito that while being perfectly balanced, has bubbles in the blade that were left from the casting process. I know some companies try to make the blades as perfect as possible and better quality control might justify the extra cost. We hope you make a great purchase, and that you have great success on your Iaido exam. We'll be waiting for the review, especially because thare haven't been many reviews of higher priced iaito coming up lately.
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