|
Post by Polarclaw on Jan 28, 2012 1:49:00 GMT
Hey there, So I'll admit, I'm not a big fan of Sabres. That's not to say that I don't find them all extremely attractive. I just never really saw myself ever being interested in owning or using one. I am a practitioner of Chinese martial arts and because of this I've only been looking at weapons that I could potentially learn how to use properly. But in a little bout of curiosity I sauntered over to Cold steel to check out their 2012 line and OH MY what did I find there. That new Russian Sabre is really stunning isn't it? I've never seen any Russian weapons before, but if they all looked this classy and distinguished I Just might have found a new interest. So I'm just wondering what you kind folks on this end of SBG have to think about this tool. Do you guys like it? Does it look functional? Am I gawking at a deformation of what these kinds of sabres really are? www.coldsteel.com/russianshasqua.html
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2012 1:54:54 GMT
It's functional. A shasqua is a very light, fast saber. The Cold Steel offering weighs about two pounds from the description off the site. That seems a bit heavy for the type from what I've heard but it's lighter than the Windlass version... makes me wonder how it would perform.
Also, the price is quite high. I can't imagine it being a horrible sword it's just a question of whether or not it's worth the risk since Cold Steel's swords aren't exactly traditional and tend to be blade heavy/overbuilt.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Jan 28, 2012 2:12:06 GMT
A few of us shashka fans have already discussed it. Aside from the deeper, better defined fuller, different grip, more elaborate scabbard, and all the engraving, it's almost identical in specs to the Windlass version, meaning it's likely the same blade, just a little altered and rehilted, meaning it likely won't be the best handling sword. Which is a shame, because quite a few of us are looking forward to a quality shashka, preferably a civilian styled one, rather than an army issue piece.
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Jan 28, 2012 4:11:37 GMT
Did someone say shashka? Shasqua? шашка? Yeah, that's like a summoning spell for ol' Kilted Cossack! (Go figure, the name alone ought to give it away.) I feel a strange compulsion to stand up for the Windlass version of the shashka, and, possibly, for the CS version.
First off, let me say that I picked up a KOA scratch'n'dent version of the Windlass. The hilt was a little loose, so I haven't done any cutting with it, but some rough forms, and some swinging and grinning, and my conclusion was that it's "not what I'm looking for in a shashka." I keep coming back to the old Circassian saying that a shashka is, or should be, "light as a feather, flexible as a vine, sharp as a razor," and by those standards the Windlass version is made of fail.
At two and a quarter pounds, the Windlass shashka is probably about a pound heavy . . . for a shashka. Let me stamp my foot and repeat that: for a shashka. With that said, the blade seems to have a good head treatment, decent distal taper, and a good edge, albeit with the typical secondary bevel one finds on sharpened Windlass products. The Point of Balance is not out of bounds for a saber, and the fairly heavy brass furniture is well cast (certainly for the price point). It's a cutter, it certainly falls within Dave Kelly's (pbuh) criteria for even a fencible saber . . . .
It just doesn't feel like a shashka to me. If I can't figure out a way to reuse the blade with different furniture, I'll just put it back together and get it nice and tight, but it won't scratch my shashka itch.
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Jan 28, 2012 4:13:14 GMT
I just thought of an analogy: the Windlass (and, I suspect, Cold Steel) shashes are like a dao, whereas a true shashka, shasqua, шашка should be more like a jian.
Does that make sense?
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Jan 28, 2012 4:20:13 GMT
Makes perfect sense. Though you should amend it to a niuweidao, as it reminds me of a saying regarding the oxtail dao I once heard: if you're taking off pounds of flesh with each swing, it doesn't really matter where you hit.
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Jan 28, 2012 4:48:24 GMT
More cleaver than slicer, in the event.
|
|
|
Post by 14thforsaken on Jan 28, 2012 4:52:44 GMT
For $700 if you keep your eye out, you can probably pick up an antique from WWII. Even though I like Shasquas, I wouldn't pay that much for a repro.
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Jan 28, 2012 5:01:35 GMT
CS list prices are insanely goofy.
|
|
|
Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 28, 2012 11:14:25 GMT
If CS list prices were legitimate, KoA and True Swords wouldn't be selling them for what they do and still be making some modicum of profit out of them. :roll:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2012 15:57:53 GMT
i think i want one, maybe only for the looks, but only if koa picks it up for a more reasanoble price. even if it isn't historically accurate, if you like the look, why not.
|
|
|
Post by Polarclaw on Jan 28, 2012 16:03:50 GMT
You got me there. :lol: Yeah it makes sense. I'm assuming you mean in the way that it is supposed to be used. The jian is more on the delicate/fine side, aiming for deadly spots. When the dao is more "COME HERE I'MA LOP UR ARM OFF!" Not that they both require their own deal of skill and discipline to wield. Hahaha. I never heard that saying before. That's great
|
|
|
Post by Polarclaw on Jan 28, 2012 16:05:18 GMT
Well I'm the kind of guy that's kind of stuck on tradition. So knowing that it doesn't handle traditionally and I could find a real one for a similar price. I might as well put some effort in finding a proper and respectful production of the Sashka.
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Jan 28, 2012 16:32:36 GMT
One question that still remains in my mind: I know that Alexander III decreed that the shashka would be the cold arm of the Army, but I don't know how "true to its roots" the shashka remained after that time. I can well imagine that, whether due to military obstinacy or adherence to tradition, the "military shashka" remained more saber like, more sword like, starting from thicker stock and exhibiting greater distal taper. Maybe the military versions looked like a shashka, but handled like a saber---just one of those things I don't know.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2012 16:54:37 GMT
For some reason the CS reminds me of the Denix shashka.
So far the only real accurate shashkas are made by Lutel, Kizlyar and I think Raven Armoury but all them are very expensive but mostly guaranteed to be of good quality. You have little choice: save money and invest on a well made modern made or lurk eBay and find one for around 250-500$ with some luck. Also check on Kosta swords: sometimes he gets refurbished ones for a good price.
But its best to avoid those badly made CS and Windlass, they are so heavy they are surpassed even by those Chinese shashkas that have flooded eBay (not kidding: while the grip is plastic and not wood, at least these are not nose-heavy).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2012 16:56:24 GMT
You mean like how the Persian shashka handles?
|
|
|
Post by Kilted Cossack on Jan 28, 2012 16:58:19 GMT
Persian shashka? One of the ones the Russians made on contract? I've got to confess: I have no idea, that's one of the many, many blades I have no hands-on time with. I'm eager to learn, though. How does a Persian shashka handle?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2012 17:31:36 GMT
My mistake, I meant the Persian dragoon saber (for some reason also referred to a shashka). That one handles like a German heavy saber. For a slashing weapon on horseback, it is ok, but nothing like a good old shashka. Mass produced military Russian dragoon shashkas (mainly those with the knuckle bow) were heavier and less well balanced but it doesn't mean they were of lousy quality. Some other military issued shashkas (circassian, traditional ones) who were mostly kept for Cossacks (Volga, Don, etc), were still light while following military regulations, for example the kind of thing this guys uses: . It's a bit like the Japanese military gunto: since most were for military use and mass produced, they did not have the same attributes found on the traditional katanas.
|
|
|
Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 28, 2012 17:43:12 GMT
I'm no expert on Russian edgeweapons. Got a copy of the only english text book on the subject Russian Army Swords I know of, Russian Military Swords, Eugene Mollo, 1969, Historical Research Unit First standardized military Caucasian Native sabre introduced into military service was the 1834. This meets KCs criteria for a "native" weapon. 1838 introduced a Cossack Shaska. Mollo provides no stats. Brassed hilt and blade design looks heavier. 1841 saw a redesign of the Army Lt Cav saber. Henceforth these swords were also labelled as "shaskas" Alexander IIIs 1881 weapon reform standardized both of these types, and the "native" did in fact get "europeanized" with multiple refinements ( aka boilerplate).
|
|
|
Post by Student of Sword on Jan 28, 2012 19:01:42 GMT
The first one in the Dave's picture looks like it is full tang instead of hidden tang? Is this full tang or just an illusion?
|
|