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Post by johnapsega on Jan 20, 2012 5:54:37 GMT
So I was looking at maille on KoA the other day and I realized that the most expensive armor is made from stainless steel, followed by flattened mild, and than just mild steel rings. Why is this? I was under the impression that stainless steel is bad.
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Post by Tendrax on Jan 20, 2012 7:18:36 GMT
Stainless steel is bad for swords because it's more brittle, and in something as long as a sword it would be prone to breaking.
I can't picture any real downsides to using it for chainmail, and you wouldn't have to try and fight rust on all those tiny rings.
It's also just more expensive. I've looked into the prices of stock steel a little bit, and even lower end stainless steel(440c) seems to be more expensive then decent high carbon steel(1095).
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jan 20, 2012 7:26:14 GMT
What he said. In swords, the steel has to be tempered and flexible... not so in armor, so stainless is great.
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Post by johnapsega on Jan 20, 2012 19:50:57 GMT
ok makes sense. Thanks guys
John
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Post by Elheru Aran on Jan 21, 2012 20:14:28 GMT
Stainless is more expensive because there's more additives and crap in it, plus you can't hot-work it or you stain it and have to clean it up or you put the lie to your claim that it's stainless
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Post by MrAcheson on Jan 22, 2012 2:20:28 GMT
Stainless steel has inferior mechanical properties to carbon steel. It doesn't heat treat as well, gets brittle much faster, and is generally more difficult to work. But stainless doesn't corrode as easily because the chromium in it forms a stable oxide layer in air. Since maille has tons of surface area, that's a nice feature especially since it's probably never going to get cut with a sword in the first place.
The pricing is because stainless has higher material cost. Round rings are basically just formed out of mild steel wire and they're very easy to make. Add in an additional step and you can turn round rings into flat ones.
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Post by johnapsega on Jan 22, 2012 16:54:49 GMT
So I am going to put together a mail suit, possibly just the Hauberk haven't decided yet, could I use these. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... Mail+Rings Second Are flattened rings common in the Viking Age up through the first crusade? What is the point of flattening the rings in the first place? www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... Mail+Rings
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Post by MrAcheson on Jan 23, 2012 19:09:22 GMT
A thousand rings sound like a lot, but it isn't. Also keep in mind that if you don't know the wire gauge and diameter of the rings (and Kult of Athena doesn't list them), you don't know how many you will need or whether the maille will look any good when it's done.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Jan 23, 2012 20:54:08 GMT
Flattening the rings... well, one theory I've heard is that it gives the rings a small degree of work-hardening. Don't know if that's for real or if it's semprinis; since you can do it in one whack of a chunk of metal, it can't be that much, given that it's a very small amount of metal to start with. It's largely an aesthetic thing IMO; if you're riveting the ends (and you should), then it makes sense to flatten the whole thing so you don't have an odd flattened section on most of your round rings.
And yeah, the average mail shirt has ~30-50K rings in it. Just a thousand is probably enough to do a repair or to tailor a shirt slightly; trust me, it's not a whole lot at all. Think of grains of rice; there's probably over a thousand in a pretty darn small bag.
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jhart06
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Post by jhart06 on Jan 23, 2012 21:08:01 GMT
Yup. Which is why, even though I've made armor of nearly every type, you won't see me doing maile. Way too tedious.
You can do cheaper, if you are making your own, by making a little $20 wire spool winder and stand, and buying wire from TheRingLord.
Much cheaper, better quality (imho) and you get all the stats in one place, and they are very friendly to work with.
They seel steel of all kinds, titanium(a dream really), nickel and sterling silver, bronze and bronze plate and all sorts of funky adonized colors, as well as some odd alloy metals.and they sell kits too.
14ga mild steel or galvanized will come in a spool big enough to do 1k-5k rings depending on diameter, for $10-$15. And really, unless you're just neligent, maile is usually easy to clean.
Just don't make yours like I did mine. 12ga steel, tiny rings. Almost 80lbs hauberk! Owwwww!
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Post by johnapsega on Jan 24, 2012 2:08:32 GMT
Ok well that was a misreading on my part. I read 2400 not 24000 on the site I was getting my info from. That seems much more reasonable.
If I am making my own rings than how do I get them to be riveted.
Also what about other pieces of chain mail armor? How many rings would be in say a Coif or a pair of mittens?
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Post by Svadilfari on Jan 24, 2012 4:08:58 GMT
Mail making is a long, tedious process if you're doing it all yourself It's *fun* to be able to say you made it all yourself..but it's VERY labour intensive..especially if you're planning on making the rings from wire, instead of purchasing pre-made links. As far as stainless steel, pre-made mail goes, it depends on just *how* authentic you plan to be ? Stainless is fairly low maintenace, and looks reasonably good. I doubt that anything made of iron/steel rusts FASTER than poorly maintained mail- it may be AUTHENTIC..but it sure gets your clothes filthy in a pretty short period
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Post by Elheru Aran on Jan 24, 2012 20:44:45 GMT
Riveting mail is fairly simple. Here's a good link... www.mailleartisans.org/articles/ ... i?key=9868 Probably the best and simplest method I've seen so far. That website also has patterns for everything you might need.
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jhart06
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Post by jhart06 on Jan 24, 2012 20:59:05 GMT
Making the rings from wire isnt bad if you make a spindle-stand... You just put glvoes on, turn the handle on one end, wind the wire around a cheap metal bar an, voila... rings (once you cut, which is simple).
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Post by johnapsega on Jan 25, 2012 5:00:31 GMT
I was not going to go here but after I make my first shirt for myself to see how it goes and looks I am going to open a store online to cater to the reenactment community, doing all kinds of things.
So I need to be able to make this profitable, I can make a semprini for a little over 250 plus time in. On KoA most of the shirts with that specification go for like 500 if I am not mistaken. So do you think I could be profitable with this. If I am buying rings or making my own?
Second I am a polyphasic sleeper which means i'm awake for 22 hours a day and am constantly needing things to do so the time and tediousness isn't an issue.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Jan 25, 2012 20:04:44 GMT
To make a profit, ask:
--What is your time worth to you?
--How long exactly is this going to take?
What you have to consider is the cost of the following:
-Materials -Your time -A slight charge to ensure profit -Shipping
If you take, say... 50 hours to make a shirt, at eight dollars an hour for your time, that's ~$400 right there. If you can reduce the amount of time to maybe 30 hours, then that's $240.
You say yourself you want to charge around 250 for a shirt; that's great, but unless you're able to make a shirt in under 30 hours-- which is almost a whole week's worth of work at a regular job-- your profit is going to be eaten by shipping.
See why mail's expensive?
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Post by johnapsega on Jan 26, 2012 18:03:12 GMT
I said that I can make a shirt for around 250 not charge. I was actually a little low, I can make one semprini for 318$ plus the cost of Labor. If I could get my room mates to help, as we are all self employed and and businesses venture is helpful. I do not think that it would come out that bad. Any opinions?
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