|
|
Post by DavidW on Jan 15, 2012 11:57:54 GMT
What would you recommend as the best jian or dao under $250? I'm looking for an extremely sharp, yet durable blade that can glide like a laser through bottles. Want it to be durable though, for accidental contact on hard objects and because it's comforting to know I have a battle ready sword for any emergencies (read as zombies). Also, I'm taking Shaolin Kung Fu right now and we sometimes do forms with a dao, but personally I like the jian better. It the jian exclusive to Tai Chi, or can it be used in Shaolin Kung Fu as well?
The Hanwei Practical kung fu sword is out of the question, I've heard it has a razor sharp edge that is somewhat fragile (and crappy sheath)
CS Gim?
Hanwei Cutting Jian?
a Sinosword or Jin Shi?
Any help is appreciated, thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Jan 15, 2012 12:15:24 GMT
The dao, jian, gun (staff), and qiang (spear) make up the four weapons taught in any system of CMA, as far as I know (with one or two exceptions that I can think of); short answer? Yes, the jian is in Shaolin, as well. As for dao, there's two options to consider. There's any of the Kris Cutlery models, though they go a little above the 250$ mark. Another option (and it'd be my preferred one) is the Hanwei Oxtail Dao, which is supposed to be greatly superior to the Practical, particularly in the sheath area; you can get it from Edge Fair or Kult of Athena for 210$, but Sean is selling his for 165$ shipped right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by DavidW on Jan 15, 2012 15:33:18 GMT
That hanwei Oxtail, is it the same one featured on the SBG main site? If so, I don't know why, but I just don't like it. How is the polish on it? I'm leaning towards the CS gim due to it's good polish. The Scott Rodell Jian seems to be less sharp and a rougher polish, and a little more expensive.
Anyone know if Jin Shi has some cheap jian or dao?
|
|
|
|
Post by HouShe on Jan 15, 2012 16:25:22 GMT
Yang Taiji doesn't have Staff. Wing Chun only has Butterfly Swords and Dragon Staff. No Jian or (traditionally thought of Dao) forms. These are two of the most practiced CMA in the world.
Now, "Shaolin" is a very broad, catchall term for a lot of martial arts. Not going to get started on the myth behind them, (and it is a MYTH).
But most styles have Jian forms. In fact, if you're learning the "Shaolin" style taught at YMAA, you even have three Jian forms of increasing complexity, San Cai Jian, Kun Wu Jian and Qi Men Jian.
You can get the Cutting Jian for under $200 if you know where to look.
If you want something that cuts like a laser, then do NOT get an Oxtail Dao. Oxtails have been proven to be less efficient cutters than the Goose Quill and Willow Leaf dao's.
The Jian isn't as much of a dedicated cutter, but I would honestly go the Cutting Jian (I despise the CS Gim look)
That said, if you can managed to get a Jin-Shi under $250. Do it.
|
|
|
|
Post by DavidW on Jan 15, 2012 18:12:23 GMT
Hmm, so I may go for a sinosword willow qing saber? But I think I'd have to take the CS Gim over the cutting jian because it's sharper (I think?), has a better polish, probably more durable, and obviously I don't know where to look because I haven't found the cutting jian to be under $200.
Are sinosword's jian any good in terms of sharpness and durability?
Thanks for the help,
David
|
|
jhart06
Member
Slowly coming back from the depths...
Posts: 3,292
|
Post by jhart06 on Jan 15, 2012 18:40:29 GMT
There was a member here who bought some and seemed satisifed.
Polish and sharpness are nice out of the box, but if you plan to cut with it, you will likely have to repolish it at some point, and definitely sharpen it. I wouldn't let that steer you from an otherwise superior product..
CS usually tends to overbuild their swords, and from what I've seen exaggerates and inflates the durability. Not bad swords, but the general consensus seems to be there are usually better products for your money.
|
|
|
|
Post by Student of Sword on Jan 15, 2012 18:54:17 GMT
Cold Steel gim is simply Huanuo Sword Art's swords made to CS's specification. So are their Japanese katana. CS don't own any factory. They design a swords or knives and sourced them overseas.
|
|
Sean (Shadowhowler)
VIP Reviewer
Retired Moderator
No matter where you go, there you are.
Posts: 8,828
|
Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jan 15, 2012 20:13:16 GMT
The Cold Steel Gim is decent. I had one and liked it quite a bit. The Kris Cutlery Jian and Dao I also like... they are a bit over what you said at around 275 tho. The Traditional Filipino Weapons Jian is very cool... I just sold it (sadly, :-( ) but look for a review of it soon. if their Dao is as good then it too is an awesome weapon. The Hanwei OxTail Dao looks like the Chinese Broadsword on the SBG site... but I don't think its the same... can't say for sure tho. This is the one I have: www.edgefair.com/prod_Detail.aspx?id=SH1011 Its sold as an edge fair exclusive. Its MUCH better balanced then the Practical Kung Fu sword... it shows a strong distal taper and has a decent edge, unlike most of Hanwei's non Japanese swords. Its the best Dao I've had yet. The Kris Cutlery one is a bit stronger overall... but its PoB is out further and its not as fast. The Ox Tail is a more nimble sword. |
|
|
|
Post by DavidW on Jan 15, 2012 20:22:39 GMT
As it is, I think I'll either get this with a T-10 blade www.sinosword.com/ProductShow/?p ... cial-Sword Or maybe a Jin Shi jian if I can nab it for under $250. Sent them an email, hopefully get a reply by tomorrow. I think I'll stay away from oxtail if it can't cut as well. Also looks a bit generic; I find the slender willow saber to be much more graceful looking. Shadowhowler, how durable and sharp was your TFW jian, and how was its polish? And why do you keep selling bunches of your swords, if you don't mind me asking? Would you recommend it over the CS Gim and if so why? Sorry for all the questions  --David |
|
|
|
Post by DavidW on Jan 15, 2012 20:28:19 GMT
Oh and SInoswords offers various steels. Which is best: T-10, 1095 folded, 1095 unfolded, or Insert steel (this appears to be san mai or something?)
|
|
Sean (Shadowhowler)
VIP Reviewer
Retired Moderator
No matter where you go, there you are.
Posts: 8,828
|
Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jan 15, 2012 20:45:43 GMT
There will be a review of it very soon...
As to how it stacks up against the CS Gim... I think the CS Gim is better looking, but the TFW Jian strikes me as more durable. Both have a good edge out of the box... the polish on the TFW Jian is a working polish... the polish on the CS Gim is VERY shinny, but thus scuffs more easily. I like the Balance on the TFW Jian a bit better, and thing the hilt construction is more solid.
Oh... as to why I sell so many swords... I buy a lot of swords, because I want to handle as many different types, makes, models as possible... to learn what I like, to better understand my options. Tho I'd like to keep them all... (most of em anyway) I can't, because I'm not a rich guy... so to get more new ones, I have to sell the ones i have. Thus... the circle of swords keeps moving.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Jan 15, 2012 22:59:31 GMT
I did say "with exceptions". As far as I know, those four weapons are taught in the majority of CMA styles, if not the most popular ones.
|
|
|
|
Post by HouShe on Jan 16, 2012 0:28:43 GMT
I personally haven't tried Sinosword's products. Cutting Jian: sevenstarstrading.com/site/hanwei/cuttingjian/ $195.99 + shipping. Grab some sword oil while you're at it (I use SST Sword oil personally and I love it) The cutting Jian, for the price point is very very hard to match. As for being sharper, it depends on your definition of 'sharp'. The cutting Jian has a historical appleseed geometry, I'm pretty sure the CS Gim has a flattened diamond (If I'm wrong, someone please correct me) The appleseed Geometry makes the edge not 'feel' as sharp when you brush it with your thumb. But can still be paper slicing sharp (because' really that's the only possible judgement we could ever use /sarcasm). The massive upside to the Cutting Jian is that it's very very hard to damage the edge. It usually comes with a cutting polish, rather than a mirror polish, but that's because it's designed to cut tatami mats all day long and doing that with a mirror polish is going to end up with a dull working polish in short order. |
|
|
|
Post by HouShe on Jan 16, 2012 0:34:34 GMT
Hung Gar doesn't have the Jian (traditionally at least, some schools may have 'discovered' lost sword forms when students asked about it though.)
I know of at least two family styles (As in actual family styles) that only use Dao and polearms. No Jian. The Jian, while it is a fantastic weapon (and my personal favourite) was exceedingly difficult to master. The majority of styles WOULDN'T have it unless for some reason their lineage included someone who needed to know it.
Most styles that DO have the Jian, either are heavily jian based, Taiji, Wudang Sword, Qing Ping Jian. Or they have added a sword form in the last hundred years from another style. There are a lot of styles out there that their only Jian form is San Cai Jian. (Which is good, I'm learning it myself at the moment and fully intend on when I'm done to integrate it with my Taijijian principles and body mechanics).
|
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Jan 16, 2012 1:02:47 GMT
Ah, see, this is where the confusion comes from. I was referencing modern day CMA styles as I was under the assumption that's what the OP was interested in. With only one or two exceptions, every modern style I have seen has those four weapons in their curriculum. I know nothing of traditional styles, because I have yet to find one that hasn't been influenced by Wushu to some degree; maybe I just haven't been looking hard enough or in the right places, but since my focus has mainly shifted to the longsword, that's not as much of a problem as it used to be. Although, I still really want to learn a dao form that's not just another wushu routine. But, no teachers available means that's not going to happen; c'est la vie.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2012 1:44:12 GMT
The last time I asked, Jin Shi swords starts out at $200 plus shipping. The price might be higher now I don't know. If you don't mind waiting for a custom sword, in terms of handling and blade geometry, they are much more historically accurate than current production jian.
Just my 2 cents.
|
|
|
|
Post by HouShe on Jan 16, 2012 2:22:41 GMT
One or two exceptions? Between Hung Gar, Yang and some other Taiji styles (Hell, Michuan doesn't even have a method for using Dao in their system), Wing Chun. You've made an easy majority of the available modern CMA to a western practitioner. Then there's most of the Bagua lineages, which also don't have those four. Just because myth makes those four to be the basis of everything doesn't make them in every martial art.
Also, between Taiji and Bagua, that makes up 2/3 of the three major internal styles not having those four weapons.
Xing Yi however, does.
"Shaolin" style a misnomer if I've ever heard one, also greatly oversold in the modern era. It is most often a mishmash of different styles. Most "Shaolin" schools in the modern era are either a specific style under a more recognisable banner (White Crane as an example) Or a collection of styles that have just been lumped together and called Shaolin.
Sure "Shaolin" has those four weapons. But Hung Gar is also "Shaolin" and it doesn't.
*Edit: Spelling mistake*
|
|
|
|
Post by DavidW on Jan 16, 2012 15:45:29 GMT
Well Jin Shi got back to me, and they said they have new models, with the base model starting at ~$300, so thats out of the picture...I think I will be getting the Hanwei Cutting jian then, if I'm not distracted by some swords in the classifieds.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sir Tre on Jan 16, 2012 16:36:13 GMT
Houshe is a long time practitioner of a variety of CMA and CSA. well rounded. i realize he is new here but he is well versed in what he speaks of. Davidw, you will do well with the Rodell jian. i have one and am very happy. Houshe makes a point about the CSgim. if i had one of those i would get new parts and handle made... i think they are ugly... but the blade is supposed to be tough.
the toughness of the Rodell model is has a testimonial based in it burning up drill bits on my handle pin project. Hanwei apparently is using the marquench technique on that thing... hell i even tried to anneal the tang and it just would not happen.
the weight and balance are extremely functional.... as the sword was designed by Scott Rodell which is a Taijiquan and Taijijian instructor, who also performs mat cutting.
|
|
