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Post by crabworm on Dec 27, 2011 2:12:56 GMT
Heard a lot of questions about the Hero's Warsword but couldn't seem to find anybody that actually owned one, so I finally plunked down 200 dollars (plus 20 dollars shipping) and ordered one from Kult of Athena. Delivery was typically prompt: Ordered it on a Saturday, it arrived the following Friday, one day before Christmas Eve. Well, it's a monster. It dwarfs my Hanwei Scottish Claymore when they're standing side by side in the corner. The blade is 7 inches longer than the Hanwei's and about a quarter inch wider. The pommel and guard appear to be of good workmanship, and the wood handle is wrapped with a white string that complemented the brightwork and gave the sword a very attractive overall appearance (in my opinion). The downside is that after a little use the string, which was not glued down nor wrapped particularly tight, began to slip, exposing the quite ugly wood of the handle underneath. Major bummer, and points off. I consider this to be a functional shortcoming as well as an aesthetic one. I'll have to rewrap the handle using cotton line or leather.
The blade itself seemed just a tad whippy. Holding the sword horizontally produced a noticeable bow of about an inch at the tip, and gently shaking the sword caused the tip to traverse an arc of about six inches. To be honest, this did not seem like a big problem, given the blade's length of 47 and 3/4 inches, but I don't have any experience of higher quality swords of this length. I would welcome other opinions.
The worst thing I found was when I stood the blade on its tip and pushed downward until the blade bowed to 13 inches out of line with the tip to pommel axis. The blade sprang back nicely, but took a set near the guard. It was minor, you had to look hard to see it, but it was there. I have heard that some swords are deliberately tempered for a softer tang/blade base so they will bend rather than shatter, and I guess this is what I was seeing. The set was easily corrected and only manifested itself under this duress, so I decided it wasn't really a problem.
I had heard some concerns about the integrity of the tang so I wanted to make sure it wasn't going to pop apart the first time I swung it against a target. The tang is peened so I wasn't able to disassemble the hilt to get a look at it.
I have noticed that large shipping crates seem to be constructed these days of 1/2 inch OSB framed with 2x4's and 1x5 planking. The mill where I work is always parking empty containers on the back dock, where they are up for grabs. They have become my favorite target, and I have converted a lot into OSB chips and white pine chunks with my Cold Steel Grosse Messer and my Hanwei Claymore.
I didn't mention that the HW came unsharpened but it did, and I left it that way partly because I wanted to maximize stress on the blade and tang and partly because I didn't want this thing having a sharp edge until I knew a little more about it. I set up an appropriate crate and gave it a few lovetaps to get the feel of four feet of naked tempered steel, then reared back and swung with all the strength that my 280 pound frame (that's fat with the muscle, just to be honest) could muster. The dull blade easily ripped through 6 to 8 inches of OSB to knock knuckle-size chunks out of the framing. Twenty such strokes left me with nothing but respect for this massive sword. I was acutely aware of the sense of commitment I had once this blade was in motion: I wasn't going to stop it and I wasn't going to change its path of attack. It followed that one should make sure of his target before launching this thing.
Bottom line is that I don't regret the money I spent. Maybe after I've tried a few of the higher-end swords I'll feel differently. And the handle wrap will always suck.
I'll update as I continue to abuse this thing.
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Post by William Swiger on Dec 28, 2011 4:19:45 GMT
Was always curious about that one but it did not get good press. It is a monster.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2011 4:49:18 GMT
Yeah it is a massive sword.
I've checked out the stats from Kultofathena and the blade doesn't seem to have a distal taper, which partly explains why the blade feels a little flexible. Grounding the blade and add some distal taper might help the handling and reduce the "whippiness" to some degree.
As for the tang, only way to check it out is to disassemble it. Even if you don't plan to disassemble it, just be be mindful of your surrounding, the stuff you cut, or any looseness in the hilt... most of the time you should be okay.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2011 6:03:49 GMT
I was lurking the old forum and I recall finding a tread about this one having a welded tang extension or something... Dug up the link, it's not the same sword but it came out around the same time and evidently people were concerned about it. Since it wasn't this specific sword I don't know if I'd worry too much but as has been said the only way to know is to disassemble it. Here it is: sbgswordforum.proboards.com/inde ... read=17400
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Post by Elheru Aran on Dec 28, 2011 19:05:29 GMT
You could 'disassemble' the hilt by breaking the wood of the grip off it; it's probably cheap wood anyway, so it might be improved by adding a better quality wooden grip. Could give that a shot; you have to rewrap it anyway, don't you?
Always had a bit of interest in that one, but the one I saw at the Atlanta Ren Fair had a rather unfortunate looseness to the wrap as you noted on yours...
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Post by crabworm on Dec 29, 2011 19:57:21 GMT
You're right about the lack of a distal taper: the blade is a uniform 2 inches in width out to within 5 inches of the tip. I actually like the beefy, robust appearance this gives the sword, despite the weight, poor responsiveness and tendency to flex it adds to the blade. Still, I scarcely notice the whippiness while hacking up crates; I suspect that much mass in motion tends to create its own rigidity.
I haven't heard any information on the best way to disassemble a peened sword, but I assumed it involved heating the peen to red heat and then trying to gently tap off the pommel. At any rate, as long as the sword remains tight I don't think I'll be trying this just yet.
And many thanks for your words of caution. This blade could do a lot damage in free flight mode. A greenhorn like me can use all the safety tips I can get.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Dec 29, 2011 21:27:03 GMT
That's actually not distal taper; that's the width of the blade. Distal taper is its thickness in cross-section, or another way to put it-- the base of the blade, by the guard, should be thicker than where it starts tapering into the tip, where it should be fairly thin on longer swords. On shorter blades it's not a major concern as weight isn't as much of an issue, but with longer blades a good distal taper can help the sword by miles.
While I'm glad you had fun chopping up crates and pallets, I wouldn't do that too much; it's not what the sword's designed for, and over time can loosen the assembly and damage the grip. I'd lightly sharpen perhaps the last couple of feet of the blade and try cutting bottles with it; that will give you rather better feedback on the harmonics of your sword.
If it's peened on, you don't have to take off the pommel to 'disassemble' it; just take off the wooden grip, it's an easy enough job to replace it. There are a number of tutorials online on how to do it, but suffice it to say it's quite simple even for people unfamiliar with woodworking.
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Post by crabworm on Dec 30, 2011 3:57:59 GMT
I had already seen that thread about the Sword of Pavia and it's what gave me concern about the integrity of the Hero's Warsword, as I understood it to be of the same "line." I thank you for the input all the same. I can use all the information I can get about this matter.
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Post by crabworm on Dec 30, 2011 4:37:03 GMT
Thanks for the correction about distal taper. I didn't mike it, but the blade seems to be of uniform thickness to within 1 inch of the tip. This is about 3/16", same as the base of the tang.
I took your advice and broke the wood handle off. The sword does not have a tang extension like the Sword of Pavia. It appears to be a good, solid tang. It runs 13 and 1/2 inches from blade shoulder to pommel. It is about 1 and 1/16 inches at base, tapering smoothly to about 5/16 inch width where it enters the pommel. Thickness is about 3/16 inch, matching the blade.
Thanks for the advice against abusing this sword further. I was afraid I had purchased something with a substandard tang and wanted to satisfy myself it wasn't going to disintegrate right off. Of course I do like whacking crates. I'll be trying some bottles next.
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Dec 30, 2011 4:41:08 GMT
Wow, that one is a beast. Over 7 lbs. is definitely not my style.
But this would be a good time to mention one method of adding what I've referred to as "artificial distal taper." Not my preferred one, mind you; that would take being willing to go with a totally different looking guard, and I'm guessing you like the look of this thing and want to keep the existing guard. Nevertheless, I've used this method on many a large "whippy" Windlass and it almost always works.
Notice the fuller? Seriously, I think that some makers keep putting fullers on oversized swords w/o distal taper because of aesthetics, but in effect that makes this all worse, particularly when the fuller doesn't extend down the blade all the way. Still, this fuller makes a handy guide to what I'll describe.
Can you picture the Braveheart sword? Leather-wrapped ricasso, right? Now, imagine the same basic idea--but with wood scales underneath the leather.
Take good slabs of either 1/4 or 1/8th inch wood, long enough to cover that whole fullered section.
Drill small holes in that ricasso section, and pin them in place. Butt them all the way up to the guard, so you'll have to shape to fit those langets.
Cord- or sinew-wrap that section, then cover in either leather or rawhide. (I've come to prefer rawhide.)
Voila, at very little added weight (and you have a monster already) you have a blade that won't droop.
Simple idea really. Add structural stability where it's needed. Indians have been using it for centuries with the stiffening ribs on the back edge of the khanda. When I got a whippy Windlass "warsword" in '98 and first tried it that was my inspiration. (Though I did that one in one piece, ricasso and grip, with guard put over afterward in my preferred method.)
But it has a long, long history--and now I even tend to disassemble swords that are considered very well hilted and doing it "my (preferred) way" anyway! (Which, of course, is why I'm a pest to makers about the availability of bare blades.)
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Post by crabworm on Dec 30, 2011 6:13:27 GMT
Am on I clear on this? You drill holes through the ricasso area of the blade? That idea sort of sets my teeth on edge.
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Dec 30, 2011 10:23:50 GMT
It shouldn't in the slightest. Seriously, in some cultures designs handles have been pinned to the tang--a much thinner section that experiences far more stress than a blade's ricasso--for thousands of years!
Any blade that's going to fail because of a couple 1/8 inch holes in its ricasso is one thing only: a POS SLO.
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Dec 30, 2011 10:34:26 GMT
Here's an idea if you're reluctant to try my suggestion out in fear of being stuck with holes. Do it first with the scales, just a spot dab of epoxy between each and the blade, and some hockey tape. Then try it out in handling and cutting.
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Post by crabworm on Dec 30, 2011 11:26:00 GMT
I see your point, especially since this blade seems to have meat to spare. Nonetheless, the epoxy idea was a little more palatable. I think I need to try this to see how it works out.
What was your other method, the one that involved changes to the guard itself? Might as well hear about it as long as we are on the subject.
And thanks for the information about this. I am always appreciative of new ideas, and this forum has already been great for that.
Meanwhile, I've got a handle to rebuild. Sounds like you do a lot of that if you work with bare blades. Any pointers to offer?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2011 14:36:43 GMT
It would take a lot of elbow grease to add a distal taper on such a large blade. You might also want to go slow as not to overheat the blade. If you are looking for tutorial for making the handle/grip here's one: yeoldegaffers.com/project_grip.aspWhile you are at it, might want to make a nice scabbard for that big boy
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Post by crabworm on Dec 30, 2011 15:24:32 GMT
I think grinding down this sword to create a distal taper is a project I'll leave for a better man. And I do kind of like the beast the way it is, a preference born of ignorance, no doubt.
Thanks for the link to the video. I see what Elheru Aran meant about how simple a new wooden handle is to manufacture. I think I'm going to try paraffin-hardened leather first, though. I had a lot of luck with that material when I used to make custom knife sheaths.
And believe me, a scabbard ain't too far in the future. Once I put an edge on this thing it's not something I want to leave laying around unsheathed.
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Post by crabworm on Dec 31, 2011 10:45:25 GMT
This is off subject, but could anybody advise me as to the proper use of the karma button? As a new poster should I use it whenever someone gives me helpful advice, or is it considered good form to wait until one has been a member for a awhile? If the former is the case, I've probably established myself as an ingrate in the eyes of many.
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Dec 31, 2011 17:35:50 GMT
I'm a little pressed for time and I've long procrastinated a careful description on the forum of my preferred rehilting method with pictures (since I have nothing new on the docket to rehilt too ), so forgive me if this brief explanation is at all confusing. But here it is: Very similar to what I described--but done all as one calculated piece. You'll have the sacrifice the existing guard in total; cut it off with a Dremel or metal saw and discard, as well as the existing handle material. (I usually can save the guard as I repommel the piece and take it all off, but I'm assuming you want to keep the existing pommel as it's in place, plus this requires making--though it's simple--a new guard.) Now shape handle scales that run in one piece from the pommel all the way up the ricasso to where my earlier suggestion described. Pin and/or epoxy these in place. Cord wrap and cover both the handle and ricasso sections. (This is also a good time to test cut and test handle to see if you went high enough up the ricasso the get the effect you like, and check for any other problems.) "But hey, what about the guard!" That's the beauty of this method--and the innovation. The guard goes on afterward, in two pieces that wrap around the handle. (This actually makes for some improvements I know, I know, "How dare we think we can improve on the genius swordmakers of history, blah blah blah..." I call it the NO-MOM method, after engineers that are colleagues and close friends who have commented on it. "No Metal on Metal." I know we get a thrill out of that satisfying ring to striking with many a well-hilted sword in traditional style, hey, I do too, but the fact is from an engineering end all the meticulous fitting that require high craftsmanship and all the talk about harmonics become irrelevant by simply eliminating vibration, and eliminating metal on metal is a big part of that.) Most of my guards are simple and workmanlike. Straight guards. Bar stock steel, wrapped around and bent together, then at each end held by rivets. This does leave a v-shaped opening between them, but you can fill this in with epoxy putty, or even get aesthetic and cut bone or a nice wood as inserts. Sometimes I even leave them be, the openings have a nice look almost like "side rings." And of course there's always the option of just extending the wood of the handle scales and having the steel of the guard act like reinforcing langets do on a polearm, just perpendicular to the blade. (Sorry if the guard description is confusing, that's the part I feel guilty about not showing pictures of a work in progress.) (For some weapons, especially one handed, I even don't have a wide guard but take inspiration from the guards of gladii and spathae: stubby, not much wider than the blade, maybe with a metal disc for reinforcement at the most, and easily capable of being made to look like Viking sword guards. Another idea very common in many non-European ethnicities, when you realize the main function of the guard is simply to avoid the hand sliding up the blade.) The biggest thing about the guards again are: Put on last. Two pieces wrapped around handle; no metal-on-metal with the blade. And held in place by the handle wrappings butting against it from the handle on one side and ricasso on the other. You can also pin it and/or epoxy it, though I haven't found either necessary. In any case, excessive worries about slippage either up or down the handle are, I've found, unwarranted. Again, I apologize for any lack of clarity without pics, but I hope you can make some sense of this. About five years ago I was in a similar position as you with a big Rittersteel flamberge that I sold on eBay but sometimes with I'd rehilted.
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Post by crabworm on Dec 31, 2011 18:18:14 GMT
Your explanation was detailed enough that it did not suffer for lack of photographs. Thanks for taking the time to go into such depth.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2011 23:51:22 GMT
Really cool to see a review on this sword as i have always had an interest about it but could not find any information on the sword. I love my swords huge, heavy and with the fuller. I just am sceptical about the quality and toughness of the hero warsword. if only Darksword made a blade like this... Can you post some pictures or videos of your sword?
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