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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2011 19:33:04 GMT
So I'm on another forum where we normally talk guns and a guy decides he wants to get a sword so asks whats good. He starts off liking Albion, so there's some hope for him. Someone else drops this link: traditionalarcherybows.com/custom_handmade_ancient_and_fantasy_swords_p4.html and tells the newbie to "go here for real swords that don't cost a million dollars...." I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit. Guy got all butt-hurt when I pointed out that for $250-$500 there are some better options out there. So I pointed him here for some research. Then had to point out WHY those "swords" were not very good and there were better choices out there. I was a little harsh, but I was upset when I learned my swords were just pieces of stainless crap when I first started. I have a buddy with 40-50 wall hangers that he thought were good, he was so bumbed/pissed he doesn't really care for swords much any more. My thoughts are the poster that dropped the above link bought one and is trying to defend his purchase. It is not easy to admit you got ripped off. Maybe I was too hard on the maker in my rant, they seem to like sharp pointy things like all of us, but they are not my cup of tea.
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Post by Mr.Wallace on Nov 19, 2011 19:47:30 GMT
Ooh...not the link I expected. Scorpion Swords is actually a vendor on these forums, and for good reason. They make one hell of a blade from what I've heard. The aesthetics may not be for everyone, but it wouldn't be a horrible purchase. A few of them have made my list recently, particularly the new Messer.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Nov 19, 2011 19:52:51 GMT
Well, Scorpion Swords and Knives makes a really good product. He often posts here with his new designs, and is a pretty cool guy all around. For what they charge for a pretty raw but very solid sword, you could get a pretty decent sword with the bells and whistles. His designs are very robust, and a bit raw looking, but very high quality.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2011 19:54:18 GMT
Really?
Guess I put my foot in my mouth. Not too proud to admit that. Back in the day I've seen a number of knife makers start to make swords and not realize that swords are not just long knives that there is more too it.
When I saw the site, I saw prices $250-500. I saw swords with no distil taper, no details on the steel or heat treat, and very blocky designs. So I didn't have a good gut reaction.
Didn't mean to step on any toes here. Obviously not the type of swords I would go for, but I was thinking more along the lines of a maker who may not be on the up and up based on what I saw.
Guess I'm wrong and they are not as bad as I thought. Crow never did taste good did it?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2011 19:56:57 GMT
Now I'm gonna have to go back to the other forum and eat some more crow. I always tell my kids to admit when they are wrong. Time to stand up and do the right thing. So to Scorpion: I'm sorry.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Nov 19, 2011 20:03:44 GMT
Don't feel too bad. I'm not a fan of a lot of his designs either. Like you said, too blocky for my taste. There's a few on there I'd love to have, like the Mexican Bowie and the Zombie Slayer Machete, as well as some of his Gladius type designs. Also, like I said, they do have a somewhat unfinished look with the fittings.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2011 20:09:32 GMT
I liked the knives and hawks. I guess I'm more of a sword snob than I thought. I look at knives differently than swords though. Back in the day lots of knife makers would try to make swords. They would be very heavy and have a horrible heat treat. The makers would try to convince buyers that they were well, more than what they were, and I didn't feel that was honest. It doesn't look like Scorpion falls into this category at all. Last thing I want to do is hurt an upstanding guys business. Makes me feel pretty crappy Anyway I apologized on both forums.)
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Post by chrisperoni on Nov 19, 2011 20:21:59 GMT
I agree the look is 'thick' or 'blocky' - not to my taste either for the most part- but some stuff like the Eli sword, Kopis, Spartan 300 etc. are good looking to me. I don't care for the plain look and crude etching on some of them.
I hadn't ever thought/noticed about the lack of distal taper... the site does not specify any taper - only gives one number for thickness. I haveto agree that it bothers me to call something a sword when it has no distal taper- makes me think it's just a machete or big knife.
I can;t say you were wrong in your opinion since everyone is entitled to their own (but I hope you didn't totally blast Scorpion Swords bacause they do custom work, are very friendly, and do make hella-tough cutters)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2011 20:44:03 GMT
Yes I did blast them pretty bad, however, going from prior experience ( I've been more into guns the last 10 years than swords), was that prices were 2-500. I never considered something without distil taper a sword, at least not after I learned about them. I saw just full tang, and high carbon steel listed and a heat treat. The etching looked crude. Compared to the stuff available now for the price, I was thinking a knife maker quickly grinding out some bar stock and calling it a battle ready sword. So I was pretty harsh on the other forum. I didn't look at all the stuff, just the longer swords. I saw the weight on them and I didn't have a good opinion. I know in the past there were a bunch of makers that did this and tried to convince people that they were made like it the old days, basically they were everything a period sword would have. (I remember getting in arguments playing D&D that a long sword does not infact weight 8 pounds...)
The way they are marketed without much detail that I would look for confirmed it to me.
Had it read something like: Heavily Constructed, 5160 High Carbon Steel (don't know what he uses) Mono heat treat for added toughness ... ... Basically the stats people throw around here about the swords. I just saw what Bud K might use to market them. If I have to dig for details I am going to assume I'm not going to like them.
I didn't really look at the knives or machete's as much because those are not swords, and I don't expect them to be, so I was only commenting on the swords.
ETA: The site doesn't list any info on taper, least the ones I looked at. However it doesn't look like there is any taper, and a 29" bladed sword should come in around 2-3 pounds, usually if it is more (one I looked at was 4.4#) then that is usually a good indication of no taper.
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Post by steelhound on Nov 19, 2011 20:50:38 GMT
Scorpion Swords are are not to my tastes either, but I'll echo others here that Chris is a highly respected and established vendor. And he was on Top Shot more than once as the archery expert. Everybody has their opinion and you're definitely entitled to yours, Boba, but let me just say that it's big of you to publicly 'eat some crow' and apologize for any bold opinions offered. Shows good character and class, and you've got some karma coming for that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2011 21:02:29 GMT
Thanks. I figure we all have to face the man in the mirror. I harp on my kids about it and doing what is right. Thanks for the karma.
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Post by Dave(utilityslave) on Nov 19, 2011 21:30:14 GMT
Chris fills a niche. He offers stuff a little outside the norm and you can commission your design with him and he will realize it while keeping the cost down below normal commissioning prices and he makes sure you're aware of what you'll be getting for the money. More refinement cost more. If that's the look you like then he is the man for you. If not, you can pay him ( if he accepts) or someone else more for the time needed for the extra work.
Some of his offerings appeal to me and some not so much but that is due to my personal taste, not his ability. The same can be said of some high end/expensive makers.
He's honest and not bashful about displaying his wares and providing accurate descriptions. He also doesn't make rediculous claims about his blades which is the usual dead giveaway of a scammer.
So, he has his place among the vendors/makers based on your aesthetic sense and price point.
This has been my experience/impression anyway.
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Post by chrisperoni on Nov 19, 2011 21:31:29 GMT
Now when it comes to shooting- yeah don't fool with them- man knows how to hit a target. And I just checked out this: traditionalarcherybows.com/handm ... w_p24.html -and that is WICKED! Bamboo Limbs, Hickory & Zebra Wood Riser --- but yeah, I can't really get on board with the 'swords' - visually they are no good for my tastes, pricewise I would go another way for my cash, and I would like to know about balance points. COP, taper, nodes, blah blah blah
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Nov 21, 2011 22:05:08 GMT
Your next step is to talk to the owner of Scorpion. He posts here a lot in the "Manufacturers and Vendors Talk" section. He'll give you the info you need.
--Edward
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Nov 22, 2011 1:24:05 GMT
Hit the "More Info" link on those blades and look at the top of the page. You see this: "They are cut out of high-quality 1095 Spring Steel... "Our Heat Treatment Process: We Heat Harden our steel, which involves heating the steel to approximately 1500 degrees, until it becomes non-magnetic then quenching it in oil. The 2nd step is Heat Tempering, which consists of heating the steel to approximately 500 degrees for 2 hours, and then letting it air cool. This makes for a Rockwell Hardness of approximately 59."
Now, I don;t own any of their swords and really don't know too much about the tempering processes to know how much of that is truth and how much is bull, but being as Scorpion is well-regarded on SBG, I doubt I would question it much. The reviewers here know their stuff.
As for the bow: looks very nice, but, well, meh. Give me a self-bow with a "D" cross-section any day. Which reminds me, I need to get my mother a bow for Christmas. I have to teach her how to shoot left-handed so she can use it for rehab (she broke her left upper arm).
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Sébastien
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Post by Sébastien on Nov 22, 2011 2:59:43 GMT
I have a Mexican Bowie from Scorpion and it is one mean, rugged and tough piece of steel. It wants to cut, and it cuts well. I really like it. Personnaly, I can understand that some might not like the sometimes-unrefined look of Scorpion's products, but I don't think these products should be judged only by their looks. Also, one thing I really like about Chris is that he often makes unconventionnal blade styles that barely exist on the market. Anyway, that's my two cents on Scorpion products. BTW welcome to SBG, Bobaflex. Enjoy yourself here, feel free to hang out with us, we don't bite
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Nov 22, 2011 4:57:57 GMT
Oh, Jee, hmmm, you do. I really liked that review you did on it, really well put out and written...
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Nov 22, 2011 5:17:41 GMT
Don't get me started... I've been playing RPG's for over 20 years and I dislike many of things that they get wrong about weapons and armor. Not just the weight... but what they call a longsword isn't even a longsword at all, its an arming sword. Gah.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Nov 22, 2011 5:25:55 GMT
Well, in all fairness, Sean, an arming sword could be considered a longsword depending on what you have to compare it to; it'd certainly be a longsword when compared to something the size of a wakizashi. It's kinda like Silver and his short sword. A mortuary hilt sword like he talks about is the same size as an arming sword, so it's not exactly short, but when you compare it to a two-handed longsword or the rapiers of his day, then it becomes a short sword by comparison.
But I agree. That's one reason I never really got into tabletop RPGs; that and I was just never comfortable with the whole spoken role play idea.
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Post by Phillip on Nov 22, 2011 6:01:33 GMT
Scorpion swords are very, very tough. I missed the boat for the Valeria, sigh.
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