Lunaman
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Posts: 3,974
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Post by Lunaman on Oct 12, 2011 20:09:06 GMT
Calling BS on you Vincent. It can't ruin the entire weapon in one stoke, it can only ruin the part of the weapon it contacts. The rest of the weapon has no resistance to continuing its path into the saber wielder. And a weightless blade is not actually easier or faster to swing than one with some weight in it, sorry. Try swinging some proper swords, you'll see.
NOW we're talking! :lol:
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Post by Elheru Aran on Oct 12, 2011 20:44:04 GMT
Best weapon to use against a Jedi? Shotgun. Lots of 'em. Failing that... 100 battle droids, at close range, firing full automatic. They're cheap; the Jedi isn't.
Back on subject... well, the all-arounder sword argument... you can have compromise swords like the XVI or the XVIII, and they work; there's a reason there's a LOT of antique XVIII's around. However, that doesn't mean there won't be more specialized swords that do better at the task they're designed for than the compromise blade will. That's just the reality of life right there. I personally think the XVIII or XVI are basically just fine, excellent all-around swords... about as good as it's going to get for an all-arounder in the Euro/Western type of blades.
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SanMarc
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Post by SanMarc on Oct 12, 2011 20:46:34 GMT
Cut and thrust is the hands down allarounder!! Some Katana meet that as well as many Euros.
Light sabors are Cut and trust so there!! :twisted:
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Post by MOK on Oct 12, 2011 21:16:48 GMT
You know, a smart Jedi would use his lightsaber more like a sport fencing saber than a katana - the "blade" is effectively weightless and easily manipulated with just the wrist and fingers, the increased range would be a big bonus, and since it doesn't actually cut but burns its way through pretty much anything, the lightest touch is enough to produce any depth of cut with no need to swing it around with force. The only possible exception comes in parrying and controlling other lightsabers, where the extra leverage of two hands might come in handy.
Curiously, the only place I've seen that actually gets this right is Fritz Leiber's Gather, Darkness!, which features lightsaber-like energy weapons (albeit with essentially unlimited "blade" length) wielded like the ultralight fencing weapons they are...
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Post by Elheru Aran on Oct 12, 2011 21:25:17 GMT
I refer you to Count Dooku, good sir... Seriously though, you're right. It has a fair degree of potential if used that way. Of course, out of universe it all comes from George Lucas' fanboyishness for Kurosawa movies and wanting to knock off the samurai...
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Post by MOK on Oct 12, 2011 21:59:22 GMT
Well, yeah, but that was probably just because sir Christopher Lee is freaking awesome like that.
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Lunaman
Senior Forumite
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Post by Lunaman on Oct 12, 2011 22:07:35 GMT
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Oct 12, 2011 23:11:10 GMT
screw lightsabers, i want a lightsaber GUN that shoots hirling helecopter of death lightsabers
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SeanF
Member
Posts: 1,293
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Post by SeanF on Oct 13, 2011 3:09:01 GMT
Force > shotgun?
Do we actually know that the blade is weightless? I mean, if it is super heated plasma then it will have mass. Being a form of matter we don't encounter in our every day life and the fact it is contained inside a magnetic field (under pressure perhaps?) there isn't any way of knowing how much it would weigh. I imagine if someone came at you with a lightsaber blade that had a considerable amount more inertia than you were used to it would mess you up.
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Post by MOK on Oct 13, 2011 3:27:24 GMT
Man, it's plasma. It'd basically weigh about as much as a lightning bolt (the visible parts of which are, essentially, made of plasma): of course it does have mass, but not on a scale perceptible to human senses, which is why I said " effectively weightless".
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Post by Maynar on Oct 13, 2011 4:13:07 GMT
I always thought a lightsaber was the most impractical weapon ever. I mean, they look great in the movies but I imagined it would be way too easy to just flick your wrist the wrong way and cut your own head off by mistake. :lol:
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SeanF
Member
Posts: 1,293
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Post by SeanF on Oct 13, 2011 4:21:22 GMT
Plasma it as dense as you make it. If you had the same density as an inertial confinement fusion into a lightsaber of 1m x 1" radius it would weigh over 500,000 lbs. So a lightsaber would weigh exactly as much as the maker wanted it to. Also consider that if you lower the mass in the 'blade' it would still have less blade presence against heat resistant armor, and have a tendency to 'cool down' as it cut through things with an extremely high thermal capacity. Lightsaber blade design isn't as simple as it might seem at first. That's why they are only used by Jedi!
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Post by MOK on Oct 13, 2011 4:41:59 GMT
Well, yeah, plasma is like gas in that regard... But the thing is, it has to come from somewhere. Looking at the way lightsabers are portrayed working, it's either stored in the hilt (like fuel) or drawn from the surrounding atmosphere (like air intake), and either way the mass contained in the blade is necessarily pretty darn negligible. Isn't there, like, one kind of material in the entire known Universe that's actually resistant to lightsabers?
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Post by Vestri on Oct 13, 2011 7:37:02 GMT
Wow, thanks for the discussion. I really love the posts of videos. Just goes to show how much I need to learn.
Having said that: Light is a particle and its a wave. When we see Light, its a wave, when we feel light, its a particle, when we use solar enertgy or photosynthesis, its a particle also. Basically, line up those particles and use the wave as the visible light spectrum and you have a weightless lightsaber (since light can only move one particle at a time, it means that a light saber is near weightless.)
Personally, whats wrong with a shot gun, wide spread, Sabot round, in an automatic reloader canister? Im pretty sure no amount of force powers or light sabering can stop a few ppl with rappid fire shotguns.
OR.... just get a few dozen ppl to shoot from all angles AT THE SAME TIME.... see a Jedi block that. lol.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 13, 2011 10:02:40 GMT
Assuming we're talking about an actual Jedi here and not just some schmuck with a lightsaber then they have the advantage of the Force and all the nifty little tricks that go along with it, namely the most basic: Push and Pull. Using an omni-directional Force Push, a Jedi could effectively create a wall of nothing and stop every single round; if they can use it to toss droids that weigh 2-3 times more than humans around like toys, they can surely use it to stop bullets (lasers are another matter entirely, as they have no physical form in the traditional sense, which is why they block them with their sabers, some with a similar make-up). And with an omni-directional Force Pull, they could easily drag the shooters close enough to lop off an arm or a head.
Safest way to deal with a Jedi is a nuclear warhead.
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Post by lamebmx on Oct 13, 2011 11:02:25 GMT
OP Question: Daisho would be my opinion. Longer sword for more room. shorter sword for cramped areas. now i have always wondered where the hid the tanto!
Light sabers: Density is important. That thing could be heavy if its a very dense plasma. Probably fed by the air around us. since you dont see jedi wearing ungodly huge gloves to hold onto freezing compressed fuel. and the handle is not big enough to insulate that well. If you take the air around us and compress it enough to make it basically a liquid you will notice its weight. not taking into effect supercritical notions which would be involved with plasma. The average Molar mass of air is 28.97 g/mol. A mol is the atomic equivalant of a dozen. a dozen = 12 things. a mole = 602214150000000000000000 things. if my memory serves me correct, the size of a mole of air is about 1 square meter, or 1 square yard for the non metric folks. so a square meter of air has mass of 28 grams. but what is most important is the first law of thermodynamics. if a lightsaber has enough heat energy to go though them thick steel doors, then if the heat is just released in the air like that. them jedi will be burning. turn on your stove and see how far the heat travels from the burner/eye. not very far, but thats also not enough heat to melt though 1 mm thick metal. or 1/8th thick for the non metric folks.
forgot to tie in the mass of air. air would be being consumed so fast. products released so fast. and you would have to move this mass of this reaction through the air. at least what is contained in the magnetic field you are moving. wind up feeling pretty heavy.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 13, 2011 11:18:06 GMT
Actually, one of the canon functions of the saber designed by Lucas is that they only heat up when they come into contact with something solid, so they'd have to be a form of plasma derived from the saber in a continuous loop; if that were the case, then the only time a Jedi would notice the heat is when cutting through something quite thick... Which might explain Qui-Gonn's rather pained expression while cutting through those blast doors. They'd also never feel it under normal circumstances given the amount of time it takes to cut through a body; less than a second to super heat and then cool and you'd never notice the heat.
That or they're a special type of light photon being created by the sabers themselves, which could explain the amount of time a saber can be active. Also, light does not radiate heat very well. Think of it like a light bulb: it's not very hot even if you put your hand within centimeters of it, but touch it directly and your only thought becomes "holy f*&k, that's hot!" And if you compress/amplify a photon enough, it could conceivably cut through just about anything; it's the same principles as a laser, really. You'd just have to have a magnetic field in order for it to keep its size and shape rather than continuing on forever. In retrospect, this sounds the most plausible, really. Well, to me, at least.
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Post by Vestri on Oct 13, 2011 12:08:35 GMT
What about those Tron discs? Im sure those are better than any sword?
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 13, 2011 12:20:21 GMT
Only if they can actually return to your hand (safely!) after being thrown and cutting straight through a person. 'Cause, if so, sign me up for an even dozen.
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Post by MOK on Oct 13, 2011 12:44:07 GMT
The safest way to deal with a Jedi is to bribe the writer. Just look at the prequels: they all went down like total schmucks upon execution (haha) of Order 66, for no discernible reason beyond "the script says so".
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