|
Post by joeydac on Oct 8, 2011 3:10:06 GMT
Considering that they advertise there swords used in destruction tests I don't think the fact that he hit something with it should be brought into the argument what should be is that its sold under the false pretensions that its peened and should be advertisee d as a threaded tang sword period if a duck looks like a duck its a duck When the very little metal holding the supposed peen on the pommels gonna fly off and the sword can become loose in hand and airborne which is very dangerous
|
|
|
Post by StevenJ on Oct 8, 2011 3:30:11 GMT
Windlass on a lot of their longer swords hasve welded on rat tail tangs which failed. The DSA pommels are threaded and peened over for extra security. It is not traditionally peened like an Albion but it is peened over threaded, Gen2s are the same way. The sword wouldn't go flying off, the nut underneath the pommel holds the handle on tightly to keep the hilt construction together and the pommel is threaded. It isn't just going to fly off. Not all DSAs are perfect. I know of people having issues with the Andrulins because the threaded portions were too small on that sword. A lot of their other swords, which are of the same construction, do just fine.
|
|
|
Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Oct 8, 2011 3:31:09 GMT
it may be "peened, but it isnt "keyed" which is very important, that thin threaded section is likely to break off under stress. especially since its so thin, im not bashing DSA, however i would not own that particular sword.
|
|
|
Post by StevenJ on Oct 8, 2011 3:34:02 GMT
It's not a rat tail, it is properly cut. On this sword because of its weight and length it may be an issue. I've owned and abused other DSAs of the same construction without any issues, hitting concrete, flex testing, cutting bottles, hitting the plastic cutting table, etc and they keep on going. If it were a welded on I'd agree with you but it isn't. It is thin but not welded on and it is a one piece construction. On a sword of this length and heft it may bend under heavy use but not out right break, probably not but theoretically anything is possible.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2011 3:46:36 GMT
deleted
|
|
|
Post by StevenJ on Oct 8, 2011 3:53:42 GMT
www.swordforum.com/forums/showth ... d-of-Pavia Windlass swords do use rat tail extension on some of their longer swords, I rest my case. Most of the tang is fairly thick on DSAs, just the end where the threaded portion is is a 1/4 inch thick. His sword may have been a defective peen but the peen on my three other DSA swords are much more substantial.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2011 4:19:13 GMT
deleted
|
|
|
Post by chrisperoni on Oct 8, 2011 4:50:49 GMT
For some perspective on the durabilty of DSA read the following thread. Different sword, I know, but still worth considering when considering DSA overall: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5386&p=64773&hilit=dsa#p64773(I wish the post had pics of where it broke as it would help shed light on the construction. I also wish every sword maker behaved like Eyal does when there is a problem)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2011 5:47:10 GMT
deleted
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2011 5:54:08 GMT
deleted
|
|
|
Post by StevenJ on Oct 8, 2011 11:21:07 GMT
I'm not going to argue that 5/16ths isn't stronger than 1/4. My point is that the 5/16ths rod is welded on where as the DSA 1/4 inch is all one piece cleanly cut which thereby should make it stronger. It does make it slightly weaker because it is threaded but I haven't heard of anyone claiming the threaded portion out right snapped. The link above about the DSA Ranger story does not clearly specify what had broke. I know of at least two on their older models, like the Andrulin and their Ranger sword, where under heavy use the threaded portion bent. On the Andrulin the tang isn't long enough and doesn't have much thread and on the Ranger the handle is entirely solid metals which caused a lot of undue stress. If anyone here has had there DSA threaded tang snap please post your stories, I'd love to know because I've owned at least five DSA swords all of which have the same construction that have been abused and held up well. Some of them I even used to attack large trees with.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2011 11:31:08 GMT
deleted
|
|
|
Post by StevenJ on Oct 8, 2011 11:55:00 GMT
Yeah half the time the weld's on most lower end makes aren't done right. I'd rather have the one piece DSA sword tang that is slightly thinner than the welded on 5/8ths rod any day unless it were properly forge welded like Del Tin but most of them just tack weld. Paul Southern clearly showed that the DSA one piece tang is strong on their other designs in the review guide. On most of their products, I wouldn't worry about it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2011 12:16:29 GMT
deleted
|
|
|
Post by StevenJ on Oct 8, 2011 12:20:14 GMT
Who knows maybe if we pressure Eyal enough he will switch to 5/8ths one piece threaded tangs for the future. Shouldn't be too much to ask . It would make his already sturdy products all that much stronger.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2011 12:27:23 GMT
deleted
|
|
|
Post by chrisperoni on Oct 8, 2011 15:05:03 GMT
fyi- blade's equations deserve a +1 for sure
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2011 16:47:39 GMT
deleted
|
|
|
Post by chuckinohio on Oct 8, 2011 17:34:52 GMT
First off- I would like to congratulate you folks for displaying a bit of decorum, pulling back a bit, and agreeing to disagree like the high functioning mammals that we all are. Secondly- I regret the absence of photos in my post dealing with my DSA tang failure, and for that, I apologize to you interested parties. It may or may not have shed some light on the discussion at hand, once again, my apologies for lack of foresight. Third- The tang failure of my DSA Ranger, which was constructed exactly in the manner desribed relating to the Wallace with the exception of the pommel being screwed straight on with no peening attempted, occurred immediately above the nut securing the grip assembly. The failure did not occur at the tang to threaded section transition where one would expect it to fail, it was approx. 1/4 inch above that point. It stands to reason that the treaded section may have not broken if it was of a larger diameter, owing to Blades provided info, but since there can be no direct comparison between two swords with the tang sections being the only difference, that will have to remain a hypothesis. A well informed and supported hypothesis mind you, but still supposition. Owing to the length of time that I employed the sword, and the number of strikes that it took before it broke, the stress risers that exist on any sword with a threaded tang and screw on pommel may have seen it break regardless??? My supposition is, that the absence of the pommel being keyed to the main body of the tang, or at least socketed to accept the end of the grip puts a stress point at the pommel termination point once threaded onto the tang and butted to the grip. Couple that with the inherent stress risers created when threading any round section, and there is the potential for failure. Thoughts, blame, wild conjecture?
|
|
|
Post by chuckinohio on Oct 8, 2011 18:36:40 GMT
If the mortise in that pommel was made to accept a tenon on the rear of the grip, it would make for a much sturdier assembly. Basically the pommel would be integral with the grip and the stress would be on the beefier part of the tang. The recess would have to be a bit larger of course, and the grip core manufactured in such a way as to provide a tenon to fit the pommel. If the grip nut was round, and fit the recess tightly it might alleviate the problem but there would still be the possibility of imparting stress to the base of the grip and the threaded section. Ideally the pommel should become integral with either the tang or the grip once asembled,at least to my way of thinking.
The thicker rim of the recess in the pictured pommel merely butts up to the end of the grip, and when or if the pommel shifts, wiggles, or shim shams, it will stress the threaded section immediately at the juncture where the grip nut terminates. Epoxy or filler will alleviate some of this effect, but epoxy is not an acceptable substitute for a supported juncture.
The pommel on my DSA Ranger was constructed the same as pictured and the pommel was recessed to clear the grip nut as above.
|
|