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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2011 0:06:40 GMT
Hi everyone. First post. I read the rules, so hopefully I'm putting this in the right place. I'll try to be as straightforward as possible:
I've practiced various martial arts for about 8 years now. I'm mostly a Bujinkan guy (if there's anyone here for whom that means something). Lived in Japan for a while. Most of my training has focused on barehand and realistic, modern weapons (knives, bats, pistols, etc.), with only some intermittent sword/staff/etc. As I've temporarily relocated to a spot where I won't have a lot of sparring partners, I'm looking to incorporate some katana practice. Most of it will be drilling basics: drawing, strokes, spacing, cutting, etc.
I'm looking to get a sword somewhere in the $200-350 range (preferably no higher) that will be good quality, durable, sharp, etc. But one other criteria that's just as important to me is a weapon that is structured and balanced as faithfully as possible to a sword that would've been carried into duels/battle/etc. After getting some advice from people more knowledgeable than myself, I've done some shopping/reading around, and so far I like both the Cheness "Tenchi" and the Ronin Dojo Pro (any model, but the aesthetics of the "Morinokami" appeal to me most).
I would really appreciate input on those, as well as any other recommendations or tips. Thanks!
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Post by Hiroshi on Aug 25, 2011 3:54:59 GMT
I must say I own a Tenchi and I do NOT recommend it. Cheness is to far behind the ball when it comes to fit & finish and quality control.
I have handled swords made by the same forge as Ronin Dojo and they are great!
I would but Ronin Dojo at twice the price before I would buy another cheness Tenchi.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 25, 2011 4:13:11 GMT
Hello, welcome aboard. I'll second Hiroshi on this one. I have a Kaze from Cheness and it is a very good sword, better built than my others, though the fittings are not great. This doesn't seem to be the case nowadays, though. Especially with the Tenchi. I've not heard anything good about it really besides Paul S' initial review. The Ronin Dojo Pro line is great. Well built and tough. Kris Cutlery has a line of 5160 blades that are very good. I have one, and despite a little rattle in the saya and a somewhat rough polish, it is great. Much better designed than my Ronin Budget, Kaze, or Munetoshi Take. It has better balance and quality overall. Dynasty Forge makes a line of Through Hardened 1060 blades, called the Musha, that have received great reviews.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2011 5:25:03 GMT
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I guess I'll rule out the Tenchi and look into the Kris and Musha options. Do you guys have any thoughts about how they compare to the Ronin Dojo Pro (not budget) models?
Also, any other input (from anyone) on options I should investigate based on my specifications are most welcome.
Cheers!
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Post by Onimusha on Aug 25, 2011 5:49:48 GMT
You could look at ryumon. Early on, they had a bad rep., buy I haven't been able to find bad reviews from any body that has one. They have a good distal taper. I got to inspect one today, and everything was solid, the balance was good, the blade was sharp, the same was real, and the yokote was geometric and straight! I've been looking at the Akio Hattori katana from Darksword armory. They say that Akio hattori himself oversees the production. They look good. They're a little too new for anyone to have much experience with them, but Darksword has a good rep. They all sell for around $300, and, last time I checked, Darksword had them on sale for $80 off, putting some of them under $200.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2011 6:29:04 GMT
Side question: for the purposes set forth in my initial post, would you guys recommend a bo-hi blade or not? Thanks!
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 25, 2011 6:44:02 GMT
The Ronin Dojo Pro, the Kris and the Dynasty Forge are pretty top-of-the-line as far as this price range goes. The Kris has a fairly rough polish, but have great blade geometry and a true, geometric yokote, which is fairly unheard of below about $500. It is also very tough, is sharp and has a fully wrapped tsuka, albeit it's not with samegawa. They use plaster-of -Paris coated with lacquer to make a much sturdier tsuka than the partial samegawa panels you see on others. The Dynasty Forge has a nice, tough blade but a slight history of cracked tsukas(though to be fair this is really a widespread problem in these lower price katanas.) I haven't really heard many complaints with the Ronin Dojo Pro. My Dojo Budget is only 1045(to the Pros 1060) steel and it is extremely tough and a great cutter, so the 1060 Pro must be a real monster. These three are the only real choice if you want to have a go at possibly heavier targets and not suffer a badly bent/possibly broke blade.
Other companies to look at would be:
Hauwei, which is an ebay seller that has really stepped up on their quality. Some really nice blades to be had and they offer Partial or Full custom katanas for about $300. You can tell them what you want, but they often get details wrong, though they usually produce a nice sword regardless. They also do full samegawa wraps, which is incredibly rare at sub-$350.
The SBG Store here also makes custom katanas for $330, and they look pretty good. Small things, like not great ito/sageo or sometimes loose fittings happen, but again this is also a widespread condition in this price range.
Hanwei is a pretty famous company with a wide range of offerings. Poorly shaped tsukas and a thinner(read: sharper but more prone to damage against heavier targets) blade profile are the only real complaints.
Munetoshi is an up-and-coming brand that put out some really nice low-price products. They may not be as good as some of the others, but they are a great price-to-value blade. They can be had at Swordnarmory.
Lastly, my Kaze is a great sword, and while it has a pretty rough counter polish on the kissaki, it also has the tightest fitted furniture, no rattle at all in the saya and has stood up to my worst botches whilst cutting without more than just surface scratches. And the hamon is gorgeous. I would put this up with the top-3 others but for the real problem with the chances of getting a lemon being supposedly fairly high.
A bo-hi is cool. It does slightly weaken the blade though, so there is a slightly higher chance of a bend. I'd personally go with no bo-hi if your planning on heavy use, or even light use against heavy targets.
The best places to get any of these stores are here at the SBG Store, and Kult of Athena or Swordnarmory. All have great Customer Service and will stand behind their offerings and have great return/refund policies. If you get a piece with a cracked tsuka, poor saya, loose fittings, damaged blade, whatever, they will usually do right by you. Good luck and please report your ultimate choice!
P.S. There are many, many more companies that sell in this price range, and while some put out a decent product, I would use any of them for anything more strenuous than hanging on a wall.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2011 7:06:09 GMT
Thanks for the detailed post. I have to be honest, I care very little about aesthetics beyond that it be a decent-looking katana. My entire concern is functionality, by which I mean not only cutting power, but authenticity of balance and structure. I want something that, if I spend a few years practice, I could pick up any well-made sword in the world and feel competent with it.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 25, 2011 7:11:33 GMT
To be honest I'm not sure that any of these are up to that, but I'd say that the Kris or the Ronin would be your best bet on the way to go.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2011 7:15:39 GMT
Fair enough. I realize that eventually I'm going to need to level up if I'm really serious. For the time being, though, I'm trying to make sure I get the best available for what I can spend.
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Lunaman
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Post by Lunaman on Aug 25, 2011 15:40:23 GMT
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Post by Anders on Aug 25, 2011 17:31:48 GMT
For what it's worth, I own a Dynasty Forge katana since a year or so back, and while I don't have a lot of Japanese swords to compare it to, I can honestly say it's the best sword I have and the one I like and trust the most.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Aug 25, 2011 23:33:53 GMT
Balance and feel on a katana is very different from one person to another so its very objective. The question I have for you is what are you looking for in a katana? Are you looking for a quick and agile sword or are sword that might be a bit slower but more powerful in its strokes? Personally I prefer one that is a little more powerful than it is quick and agile. Now that's going to change because of my current physical limitations but hopefully I'll get better and get back to normal. I like a katana where the point of balance is about 5" out on the blade. Some will say this is a bit on the blade heavy side but it works well for me when cutting. Some people like the point of balance on their katana only 4" out and that makes for a lighter feeling and more agile sword but a bit less effective at cutting heavier targets. I've also met people who like their katana to feel like a fencing foil... something I just don't like at all. There are a lot of decent katana within the $350 mark. Now I could tell you which one is perfect for me but that may not be perfect for you. If you haven't trained with katana much then it may not be too important but the way the katana feels in your hand is VERY pertinent to how you were trained to use a katana and the style in which you trained. What most people believe to be a "perfectly balanced" katana is in actuality not acceptable at all for most kenjutsu styles being that they have a point of balance far too close to the tsuba. Of course its great for Iaido but most people couldn't tell you the difference between kenjutsu and iaido anyway. My advice would be to learn a bit about swordplay first then decide what sword works for you. Just for reference my idea of a perfect katana under $350 is the Hanwei Practical Plus. kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=PC2073
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2011 23:50:06 GMT
Thanks for the honest feedback. Most of my sword training (in the Bujinkan) is fairly kenjutsu oriented, but there is some concerted focus on the draw, as well.
I guess I'm looking for a balance: speed and agility as well as power and durability. In some ways, I'll be using my practice as strength conditioning, so something with some weight on it is not necessarily a bad thing as long as it doesn't interfere with agility.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Aug 26, 2011 1:16:46 GMT
You're most welcome. Regarding your sword training - no offense but from what I've seen of sword training in Bujinkan it is not very close to kenjutsu at all really. Therefore its hard for me to determine what you'd be looking for in a katana. Second your comment: Sounds to me like you aren't exactly sure what you're looking for. Your style of swordsmanship along with your experience with swords will determine the kind of sword that is ideal for you. We as others who do not know you or your personal experience with swords can only suggest what we find to be ideal for us. That being the case perhaps you should find a place where you can handle multiple swords (and/or perhaps ask your Bujinkan instructor what sword would best suit your style of swordsmanship) and then determine which sword is best for you. Of course there is the Cheness Oniyuri. Its endorsed by Hatsumi himself as being best suited for Bujinkan practitioners. sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/oniyuri.html
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2011 4:14:22 GMT
Hm... perhaps my experience/perspective of kenjutsu is skewed, then. How would you characterize the Bujinkan sword training, then?
As for the rest, maybe I'm expressing myself poorly, but I thought I was pretty clear in my objectives: a sword with some heft, but not so much that it's clunky, well balanced, durable and sharp. In retrospect, one thing I should probably also be taking into account is the saya, since I'll want something constructed in a way that drawing practice won't destroy either sword or sheath.
Again, appreciate all the attention/feedback.
Edit: On the Oniyuri, I have been eyeing that sword for some time, and definitely intend to purchase one in the not-too-distant future. However, while I'm getting grounded in sword usage, I think it's probably smarter to learn on the "standard."
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Post by Insane on Aug 26, 2011 6:21:12 GMT
In my opinion you can't go wrong with Hanwei. The axe handle tuska is mostly a thing from the past and the practical line that is in your price range had no problems with that as i understrand. Hanwei offers very solid swords with decent fittings and various shapes of blades. www.realarmorofgod.com/images/ha ... les-lg.jpg They have one thing in common, they are really really sharp. My favorite sword is the Practical plus elite i believe they don't make it anymore but it's still available in most shops. It's not a very light sword and it has a beefy blade for multiple rolls but the balance is very good and i can handle it with one hand. www.sword-buyers-guide.com/pract ... elite.html Any of the practical line will suit your purpose but i would go for the plus or elite models because there nicer with the fittings.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 26, 2011 6:50:34 GMT
I forgot to ask, what size are you looking for? I'm short, so the Kris 26in katanas are a godsend.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 26, 2011 6:56:45 GMT
Sorry, I didn't even see this post. You're absolutely correct. I think that one of these tough, but inexpensive pieces will serve you best. I'd love to have had a Howard Clark or Micheal Bell as a first katana, but I'd likely have killed it by now. I'm going to still recommend the Ronin or the Kris, with Dynasty Forge as a hair-close third. All are sharp enough for light cutting, and tough enough for heavy cutting and have nice niku and balance. The Kris has the best geometry and all-around balance in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2011 7:15:39 GMT
Thanks again. I'm fairly average sized (an inch or two under six feet, about 180lbs.), so I've generally been shopping around the 29" mark.
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