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Post by NIM7 on Aug 14, 2011 8:28:58 GMT
Hi all,
I was wondering about if an 1075 steel blade would be good for swords. I come across a lot of 1065 and 1095 swords, so would that make 1075 good for in between having good flexibility/durability and hardness?
I'm new to buying real swords. Most of the time been practicing with soft flexible spring sword and now the time has come for the real deal (Will be cutting targets etc.).
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Post by Vue on Aug 14, 2011 9:31:19 GMT
I have own a few 1075 swords and they are great, keep in mind that it's not the steel but its the heat treatment that is important.
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Post by NIM7 on Aug 14, 2011 12:10:13 GMT
I understand but that statement would apply for all types of steel I guess. Its just that I had a read that most blades are commonly made of:
1045 1060 1095 T-10 5160 L-6
This made me wonder why 1075 are not commonly used? Thank you for you reply.
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Post by Vue on Aug 14, 2011 13:08:41 GMT
It all comes down to availability and costs, 1075 does not necessarily cost more than the other types but I assume the other types are just more readily available.
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Post by LastGodslayer on Aug 14, 2011 13:17:04 GMT
About it being a good steel... I'm not sure I'm correct, but I think it depends on the degree of decarburation that occurs while forging. 0.75% is around the ideal carbon content for japanese swords (there is a chart somewhere that shows Hardness vs Martensite formation vs Brittleness, but I can't remember where), but you lose carbon content during the forging, so it ends up being less than whatever carbon content you being with. If you begin with 1095, odds are that you'll have enough carbon content in the end to get maximum hardness (62-63 HRc), although the blade might become brittle (which is why high HRc blades need careful tempering after the quench, and this doesn't always happen). If you begin at 1060, you will probably never get a hardness over 55-56 HRc, but the blade probably won't be brittle in the end. 1075 would be a great steel for some kinds of forges, that gets very hard (58-60 HRc) but doesn't get too brittle. Some smiths who expect moderate decarb, but also want something a bit more exciting with the hardening effects will sometimes use 1080-ish steel with various alloying elements. I'm assuming decent heat treatment in all of this.
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Post by Student of Sword on Aug 14, 2011 15:06:58 GMT
Rick Barrett forges his katana from 1075 steel. And his swords are famous for being tough. Citadel Katana, a high-end katana production company, also makes their swords out of 1075 steel. I never held Barrett's katana, but own 2 Citadel katana. The hamon is more subtle than the higher carbon content steel.
I believe in Western swords, Albion makes their swords out of 1075 steel.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2011 18:12:27 GMT
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Post by NIM7 on Aug 15, 2011 0:46:07 GMT
Thank you for your replies. That is what I wanted to know about the 1075. The respective sword I was interested in is a Handmade Chinese Sword HAN JIAN. Would anyone know how cleaning and maint would be done? I know how Japanese swords cleaning proses are done out but for Chinese Jian?
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Post by Student of Sword on Aug 15, 2011 5:20:57 GMT
There is nothing new under the sun (in theory), but in practice it can be new and innovative. All applications in "material science" are based on proven scientific principles. But every so often, a person may discover an application to something that no one had thought of before. Said application may have been used previously in X industry, but no one thought to apply it to Y industry. Said person is still the pioneer.
If you stick to strict semantic, there is no "invention" unless there is a patent. Something are not patentable, usually "process." But in layman term, the first person who pioneered a process or an new application to a process can be called "an inventor." Unless you are a patent attorney, you are just being difficult and argumentative. Sure, technically speaking, he is not an inventor. But technically speaking, most circular objects are not circles either. Is anyone getting on your case about calling a wheel a circle when it is not really a circle by mathematical definition?
I remember years ago the guy who invented the sun-screen for car windshields. It is such a simple device that I wish I had thought of it. Is this invention so earth shattering and new? No! It is nothing but a folded piece of cardboard. I am pretty sure the guy did not invent folding or cardboard. Nonetheless, he made load of money of this simple "invention." The main different between this guy and the bladesmith in question is the former had a patent and later did not.
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Post by Crimsoned on Aug 15, 2011 14:01:20 GMT
This is out of memory from Swordforum, and mostly Bladeforums. 1075 steel seems to have large issues with the heat treatment of Japanese swords. They tend to crack more often then not unless you get the Heat Treat just right. Why take a risk when you can use a more forgiving steel like 1060 or 1095 or Chinese steel?
It isn't availability that's for sure, plenty of suppliers for it. In fact I can get 1070-1095 locally from a steel distributor, and another steel for that matter if I pre order. No super powder steels however way the hell to expensive.
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LeMal
Member
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Post by LeMal on Aug 15, 2011 17:47:50 GMT
That is a very beautiful Jian, NIM7. Is there a website link to the maker you can share?
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 15, 2011 18:05:07 GMT
Cleaning would be basically the same as with a japanese sword, indeed most swords wherever they are from can be cleaned the same way. The big difference is I would not use the powderball as it would likely be too abrasive on the design along the blade.
What exactly is the design? Is it painted on, etched, chemically treated (ie. blueing chemicals) or something else?
The safe bet for cleaning would be to use simple choji oil or plain light mineral oil, and soft cotton cloths- both for wiping the blade clean and giving it a light coating of oil to protect it. If the design is etched or chemically coloured (and I recognize etching can be physically applied with tools, and chemically applied) the oil should actually help proect it. If it painted on you would want to be sure the oil does not 'eat' at the paint.
Have you asked the manufacturer/seller how to maintain the blade? They may have certain requirements and this would be good to know especially if improper cleaning can damage the design.
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Post by Aaron W on Aug 15, 2011 18:27:31 GMT
Anthony DiCristophano forges a few of his blades out of 1075 also. I only know of those two Japanese swordsmiths who use 1075 on a regular basis. Obviously there are occasions where other smiths will make a blade or two out of something they normally don't use. I know Howard Clark has made a 1075 or two, as well as Rick Barrett using 1086 (L6) once or twice.
To the OP, I wanted to point out that you're forgetting W1 and W2 steels also. There are many many makers who use these steels, I happen to have a W1 tanto by Jason Dingledine. Smith Walter Sorrells uses W1 and W2 very commonly for almost all of his Japanese style blades in any length.
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Post by NIM7 on Aug 16, 2011 2:22:53 GMT
Hello LeMal,
The maker is a ebay user swordmaker688 (Ryan Swords). I know most of people will say do not trust ebay sellers and etc. But he seems legit (100% Positive feedback). The sword itself is not full tang so its self-explanatory.
To chrisperoni, the patterns is etched.
To Aaron W, Im still fresh to the making and materials so I dont know about W1 and W2 steels. I'll research more on these topics. Thank you.
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Post by Cole Chang on Aug 16, 2011 10:05:25 GMT
Whoa, hold up, back up a sec...first of all....ebay??? Second of all, not full tang???
Didn't you mention in your first post that you wanted to do some cutting? If the sword does not have a full tang, I wouldn't recommend cutting with it. I've never cut before in my life, but I do know that functional swords are supposed to have full tangs.
The colour on the blade looks neat, but again, on a functional cutting blade, you wouldn't want that as it will get scratched and chipped off easily. Garrett explained to me that even when done right, the colour on a blade will chip and notch over time as you cut with it. It's normal, but will look terrible.
Nothing wrong with buying a sword on ebay, but you might not get much or right info about the sword. You need to find out about the manufacturer, full specs, reviews, etc...
What's your price range? Take a look for Jin Shi, both on Google and in these forums. You'll find good reviews and information. Garrett's currently taking orders for Han jians now.
Cole
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Post by Cole Chang on Aug 16, 2011 10:14:09 GMT
Ok, I looked and found Ryan Sword's ebay page. Yes, the pictures look really good, and the price seems good too....very tempting in fact. So, I'll put this out to more experienced members....please take a look and tell us what you think. There's still not a lot of info about the sword itself though. Take a look at his other swords too, and please give your opinion. cgi.ebay.com/High-Quality-Handma ... 034wt_1139 Thanks! Cole
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Post by NIM7 on Aug 16, 2011 11:22:58 GMT
Sorry, there was some miss understanding on that part lol. I would not use that sword for any cutting purpose. That Jian is just for practice, the reason why I asked about cleaning for that sword is just because I was curious on how to clean those type of sword. I just mealy wanted to know about 1075 steel.
How ever, I am looking for a true functional sword though.
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Post by Cole Chang on Aug 16, 2011 13:33:00 GMT
Ok, if you want a functional jian, then you have a couple of options. These options are from reputable manufacturers, with generally good reviews for their products. They're all within the same price range too approx 300 give or take...
Cold Steel - Love em or hate em, they have a pretty good rep. My double edged katana and my heavy duty sword cane both came super sharp. Also, my local dealer sells their products at huge discounts. If you don't have a local dealer, try Kult of Athena.
Kris Kutlery - Not the prettiest, but their swords are reputed to be tough and functional. My 25" katana from them is solidly made, sharp and decent enough quality. Handle seems a little thick too, but then, I have small hands.
Hanwei - I've talked enough about Hanwei I think...but just to recap, the only "functional" jian from them is the Cutting Jian, although other people have used some of their other swords to cut with. Quality with them is always good, but their swords are dull. I have a Tactical Wakizashi (Tacky Wacky for short), and a Green Bamboo Snake Katana with a folded steel blade. Both are beautiful, but dull. The GBSK is strange in that it's the only katana in my collection where the handle is thin enough for me to hold comfortably - I love this sword!
And last but not least there's Jin Shi. I wish their website had more info, but Garrett is really easy to talk to, and he's very free with information. He always reponds with good honest info, and often gives his own opinion sometimes. I'm eagerly and somewhat patiently waiting for my Xin Jian!
Ok, I've rambled on, and only because I had recently been on the hunt for a good functional jian myself. I'm sure other folks here will have other recommendations so take those into account as well. In reference to your topic though, my thoughts are this: unless you've made a study of different types of steel, or are just geeky enough to do a lot of reading and research on your own, or just like to find out every single piece of info about something before you buy it, it shouldn't really matter what kind of steel a sword is made from. As an average consumer, or even a nuby sword collector, what's more important is the reputation of the manufacturer, the reviews of a particular sword, and the words, wisdom and advice of other's who've been there and done that.
I say that because I personally can read about different types of steel until I'm blue in the face (and have), but I'm not really going to understand it...not really. What's important is how the sword was made, how it looks, the customer service, and how much I have to take out of my kids' mouths to pay for it! :twisted:
Thanks for listening...er reading!
Cole
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Post by NIM7 on Aug 16, 2011 14:16:59 GMT
Thank you Cole Chang. Even though this would be my first time buying a sword, I have a habit of researching my product until my head explodes lol. Also the reason why I'm researching about steel type is because I just have a curiosity of what Im looking or going to look at. I once wanted to buy a watch and I ended up reading how watches are made and the history of them etc. :lol: . There is nothing wrong in wanting to know and I love knowing what I dont know When ever Im going to buy a product like a sword I always look at who Im dealing with. I have a soft spot to people who are honest and true to their words. Jin Shi kind of wins my trust and so I will see if I can do business with him. Thank you again for your info. After Iv selected a Chinese sword, Im going to have to look for a Japanese one. That is the only down side in learning 2 different arts >.<
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Post by Cole Chang on Aug 16, 2011 16:20:45 GMT
Gosh, I totally agree with you there. I went through a similar thing with watches too, but in the end, decided I couldn't afford a really nice watch because most of the really nice watches are not all that much functionally different from regular nice watches...only the name brand and maybe some aesthetics. There are some watches out there that make Rolex look like a cheap Chinatown knock off - no kidding! A colleague of mine told me about a friend of his who fixes watches. One day, a watch comes in, and the watch itself is worth about a quarter million dollars! Ouch! Ok, I don't want to hijack your thread, but I gotta relate this... I'm Asian...made in Taiwan, but raised in Canada. When it comes to swords, my inclination is towards the Europen types, especially the hand and a half swords. Never even really was much into katanas. Now, with my collecting dying down, I look at my collection, and I actually have 3 katanas! How the heck did that happen? I say this cause there's just something very alluring and magnetic about the katana...don't know why! So be careful in your collecting...you may say that you're going to look at a katana next, but don't be surprised a year later if you have several! Cole
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