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Post by rammstein on May 9, 2007 23:59:29 GMT
Speaking of Iaido, I just found a class somewhat near me (about a 20-30 minute drive) so I may take it up once I garner enough from fencing.
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Post by hotspur on May 10, 2007 0:27:42 GMT
There are often long threads about folk that are left handed and want to learn but don't want to learn the traditional way. They feel this excludes them from the possibility of training properly in a dojo.
Usally, some posts into such threads, veteran students of the arts who are left hand dominant try to explain that it can actually be somewhat of an advantage in learning to draw and sheath from the left. Control of the saya at the critical times is a large part of the "talent". It will also be your left hand doing a lot of the actual control of the sword and power in a cut.
So, don't let being left handed discourage anyone from giving "the right way" a chance. If you feel you must learn from books/videos and do it "your way" at least try to be safe. Someone training at home did manage to slide a blade right through his arm while performing a return to his saya. It does seem more accidents happen off campus than on. Some practice exclusively with iaito, some progress to shinken soon enough. A great many will start with bokken anyway.
As far as left handed WMA is concerned; Every well schooled fencer and scholar I can point to (who wrote/compiled the books some of you may use at home) tend to agree that someone fencing/bouting left handed has no real advantage unless his opponent is not well experienced. The lead post is a nicely done overview of some basics and I truly appreciate that he has included the precept that it cannot replace an instructor. Thinking it might give one an advantage when going to join a class might lead to some dissapointment for both the student and instructor.
Cheers
Hotspur; sorry if that sounds preachy but even WMA is not learned well in isolation
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2007 0:44:29 GMT
In Jodo there is omote and ura techniques. In most swings of the Jo your left hand IS the power hand, but it usually originates from a right handed stance. This is why the Jo is so multi-adaptable. It has power to be used at both ends of the weapon, where the sword has only one BUSINESS end. If you understand what I'm getting at ??!
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Post by rammstein on May 10, 2007 0:49:01 GMT
Hotspur, the problem is, learning right handed something that could easily be accomplished left handed is nothing more than an attempt to conform. And as I've said before, anything that forces me to do something just because I'm different is not something I'm going to take kindly, especially when the excuse is "tradition" instead of practicality. For all practical purposes, there is no use learning how to walk again if you already know how to do it, and you do it perfectly fine.
As to WMA: Most of us are not gonig to be fighting john clements any time soon, if not ever in our lives. People of his calibur are gods in the longsword and learning left handed or right handed wouldn't make much difference to them. Unfortunately, the majority of longsword fencers, shield and sword fighters, and other modern day warriors are not going to have anywhere near that level of experience. I can safely say that, from my limited experiences fighting, being left handed is a huge crutch to me, especially in sword and shield. Because les than 10% of the world is left handed, righties aren't generally going to be used to seeing a left hander. On the flip side, lefties will always be used to seeing a righty. Just out of plain logic, the lefty has a huge advantage, no matter how you analyze it.
As to whether lefties shouldn't be discouraged to fight right handed: I've said it before and I'll say it again: If, as you say, it makes little difference, why change in the first place? There is no such thing as a "right way" to kill someone. There is only a more efficient way; and right handed sword fihting has ABSOLUTETLY NO advantages over left handed sword fighting and all of the evidence shows that it is acttualy reversed (unless, as you say, you are fighting a person who is well experienced.)
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Post by hotspur on May 10, 2007 3:52:43 GMT
What I'm really trying to say is that those lefties that feel very strongly they cannot (or will not) learn what the majority of dojos are willing to teach will find themselves left to their own devices. Sword and board (1.33) is not JSA, German longsword is not JSA. Self training is not JSA. The SCA is not JSA (but conforming to rules is an absolute requirement). Doing what you want to do is absolute freedom of choice. If one doesn't feel like they want to conform to an edict of tradition, go for it. Just don't expect a dojo to cater to it. That may seem biased and prejudicial but it is what one will find. You might be able to find some private guidance on the issue but I don't think anyone has found a group setting that caters to folk wanting to learn JSA from a mirrored perspective. I also related that some very well versed JSA participants are left hand dominant and have embraced "the right way" Not for you? All well and good. What is your real goal in wanting to learn a Japanese form? In what applications of your endeavours do you see yourself using techniques you might learn from JSA? Again, not meaning to sound preachy. Cheers Hotspur; any new training may seem like learning to walk again; Why not walk like an Egyptian?
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2007 23:46:49 GMT
why not just sidestep the whole problem... two heavens school, anyone?
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2007 4:56:24 GMT
Awesome job ChopChop! Thanks for the thread and visuals! Karma to you my friend. I am actually thinking of posting a direct link to this thread. I think with the market I pull in they will definitely benefit from this.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2007 20:32:20 GMT
Thanks for the post. I wasn't aware of a proper way to re-sheath. I had my own way but it wasn't any good.
After some initial practice with ultimate care, your method suits me well and I managed to do pretty well once understanding the proper way.
Poked myself twice but that comes with the territory of learning I say...
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2007 20:41:26 GMT
can i just say be careful! this thread on sfi was about a gentleman who was practicing his jsa without any professional instruction and had a terrible accident during resheathing. all it takes is a moment of inattention and a sharp sword and boom, hospital. so be careful doing live exercises with a sharp blade and no instructor. keep it safe, people. forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=53083
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2007 22:11:29 GMT
Sometimes over instruction causes over confidence as well. I know that even if I have perfect form 100 times out of 100, the next one can potentially go through my entire hand.
Never be absolutely confident in your ability, ever. Common sense and discipline are the biggest factors in keeping yourself safe.
Never get too comfortable with a sword in your hand.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2007 23:00:42 GMT
Chop Chop, in one of your follow up posts perhaps you can demonstrate the different types of strikes.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2007 14:29:38 GMT
I think at the higher level of competence confidence is all important. Chop i have two questions for you mate. Do you draw off your left hip or your right hip and when doing a two handed strike which hand is your low hand?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2007 15:10:58 GMT
I think I can aswer that for you bloodwraith the katana is allways on the left and your right hand is closest to the tsuba
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2007 15:56:40 GMT
so you draw with your left?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2007 16:53:41 GMT
reach across your body with your right hand and draw. most of the time.
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Post by tajima on May 13, 2007 0:03:17 GMT
Usually. Don't you hate having a blade a little to long and when you go to draw it gets caught? *sigh*.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2007 2:02:31 GMT
and then your right hand is closest to the tsuba? Is that correct?
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Post by tajima on May 13, 2007 7:00:51 GMT
Yes, right over left. Ill tell you in more detail.
Say you are facing forwards, our view being your own eyes. The saya, with the unsheathed blade inside, faces upwards. With your thumb on the tsuba and hand just in front of it, push forward with your left hand (tsuba) and after half of the blade has been pushed pull the rest with the right. Place your right hand over the left while on the tsuka, preferably 3-5 centimetres distance. You then have low-cut, high cut, one handed and a manner of different positions with your hands.
Hope that helps, SBG S.O.!
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2007 11:54:09 GMT
Chop Chop, in one of your follow up posts perhaps you can demonstrate the different types of strikes. These are the proximities to the body of which we cut through, or aim for. The term 'Strikes' is more to do with Kendo. Kendo is very formalized with its strikes, and allowed strike zones of the body however, I find it too much like a sport than a martial art. That's just me though.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2007 15:16:07 GMT
I was going to start a thread about this very subject, the right and left handed swordsman. Do you go with tradition or with your strong side ?
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