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Post by Bryn on Apr 26, 2011 18:13:47 GMT
So,
Through the magic of the classifieds, I picked up a pre-owned hanwei rapier from Cory for a fairly good price (and incredible shipping!). Man, I wish I could compare my reaction to everyone else's the first time they hold a real rapier. It doesn't feel AT ALL like I thought it would. Not bad, just very VERY different.
Thoughts to guide me through this interesting time? I'm actually not sold on it, truth be told. Tooooo much weight in the hilt, and it actually doesn't move that fast. But hey, first time Rapier-ist, what do I know?
Also, might a side-sword be a better choice for me? More in the blade, still a bit poke-y but with the ability to cut.... Hmmm. Worth thinking over.
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Post by Bogus on Apr 26, 2011 23:43:04 GMT
Welcome into the fold.  For what it is a rapier is a pretty quick blade, though it takes some practice in using it versus more traditional hack-n-slash swords. If you haven't already try gripping it with one or two fingers over the guard and on/around the ricasso, it gives better control. Sidesword is good times, it's shorter and stockier and actually cuts things. Smallsword is lighter, faster and more specialized--basically a three foot long toothpick. As to whether you'd enjoy one of them more than a rapier, I'd have to know more about what exactly the rapier isn't doing for you to give any advice. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2011 0:48:18 GMT
When you read this you're probably going to say, "Duh! Doesn't EVERYONE know that?" But just in case you're in totally new territory, like Bogus says, make sure to try different grips with the thing. The most common of course is to put the forefinger around the ricasso (thick dull zone of the blade just ahead of the hilt). But if this doesn't do it for you, try the two fingered style. That's my preferred grip. I have big hands and fairly strong fingers from mountain climbing, so the two fingered grip works for me. If you don't use one of these two grips, a rapier will feel like an awkward beast. Remember, it's not a cutting weapon. The classical rapier offensive strike is a thrust.
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Post by Bryn on Apr 27, 2011 5:14:37 GMT
Honestly, the funny thing is this. There's not enough weight in the blade for me to feel comfortable in anything other than the thrust. But... there's two much weight in the hilt to parry (comfortably from the wrist. Granted, I know parries are supposed to be with the arm, but... man is it a weird feeling. I guess I either want something that I can parry from the wrist, or something I can cut with, but not a sword that can't do either. Oh well. I'll give it about another week or so, then throw it up in classifieds if I'm still not bonding with it. Maybe get a saber or a side-sword.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 27, 2011 8:43:21 GMT
A lot of it has to do with expectations and experience...
The only traditional sword training I have is with rapier fencing... so for me they are very comfortable. However if you are used to a different sword style... or expecting something different and have no rapier experience... they can feel pretty weird for sure.
Most of the speed of the rapier comes from wrist control... and not arm swinging. Your arm will move a LOT less then with a Katana or European arming sword for instance. Its a whole different animal.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Apr 27, 2011 22:52:41 GMT
Sounds like ya might have done a bit more homework before purchase. Got a rapier an it isn't what you thought it was going to be...  If you got a Hanwei you actually are holding what might be considered a light sided rapier. Most historic rapiers run in the 2.3 to 3.25 lb weight range. A few are tactical cut and thrust bladed, but many, perhaps the majority fall in on the thrusting sword (with edging capable of "drawing" blood with slicing rather than slashing blows). There are quite a few rapier bits on Youtube that can help you with the fundamentals and viewing combat. Decent amount of Tom Leoni on line. Great teacher. What do you want to "do" with your sword? If cutting is something you favor, the rapier is the wrong weapon. I have two rapiers that are huge and over 3 lbs. Lots of reach, but slow. My Spanish and my Pappenheim are brilliantly balanced and I'm quite comfortable making compound maneuvers with these that go beyond traditional application: but the swords handle it well. It's a fascinating weapon system; one I ultimately don't like to execute, although the aesthetics are too compelling to abandon. |
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Post by Bryn on Apr 27, 2011 23:43:20 GMT
Alright,
So, with what folks have said and what I've observed after spending a bit more time with it....
Dave, like you said, this seems to be on the lighter side, as far as blades go. I was a bit fooled when I looked up the total weight, as the hilt and pommel are MASSIVELY heavy. Shows me not to trust stats before I buy, eh? I think the problem may be that simply have the wrong rapier for myself. It's not that it isn't a quality weapon (I spent enough time with it to figure that out) it's simply that this weapon and myself aren't bonding. The feel just isn't there for me. So, that said, I think what I'll probably end up doing is saving up a little and trying to pick up something in the rapier family that's a bit more red-blooded. I wish windlass still made that sword-rapier they used to make. Ric picked one up and I really liked the look of it.
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Post by Bogus on Apr 28, 2011 0:00:38 GMT
If you're wanting a stronger cutter I'd be looking at the sidesword, though bear in mind it too is very guard-heavy. They're probably not in your price range (nor mine sadly  ) but A&A makes some totally sweet looking heavy rapiers. |
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Post by Lobster Hunter on Apr 28, 2011 19:44:05 GMT
Yeah, the rapier is a strange creature. They're actually a lot heavier and slower than the fast and zippy fencing foil like thing that a lot of people think of. The Hanwei rapiers are an amalgamation of historically viable design and popular expectations. This is a very informative review: www.myarmoury.com/review_casi_gustav.htmlI had a hard time bonding with my Hanwei swept bone handle rapier as well. But once I learned a bit more about rapier technique like parrying and striking in one motion (single time) as opposed to the quick parrying AND THEN striking (double time) , I started to appreciate the handling characteristics more. I prefer the two fingers around the ricasso grip as well. |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Apr 29, 2011 1:50:54 GMT
Maybe one of the school folks will want to elaborate, but AV Norman characterizes sword styles of the period as:
Italianate; the most familiar single finger over the quillon, with a flexible cut and thrust technique.
Spanish; principal advocates of the two finger over approach with very strong point action.
German; no passage over the quillons with emphasis on cutting.
Such characterizations are over simplified as the approach to weapons varied over time with cross fertiliztion of weapon types and training techniques.
I just thought it was nice to find out that my own preference for use of two fingers wasn't a gross violation of period practice after all.
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Post by Bryn on Apr 29, 2011 20:19:58 GMT
So the eventual conclusion of my brief union with that piece is as follows. It's up for sale in the classifieds. I realized what I really wanted was a light cut-n-thrust sword, rather than a thin-bladed rapier. Also the juxtaposition of the robust hilt (it's based on a pappenheimer style) and the thin blade just didn't jive to me. So, I think I'll either get the hanwei side-sword next or move on and give rapiers a try at a later date. I figure after about an hour and a half of handling drills pulled from youtube and what I could figure out from Cappo Ferro plates, this sword just wasn't at home in my hand.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Apr 30, 2011 20:18:46 GMT
Bryn:
I went with a Hanwei Renaissance side sword . . . and I wasn't too happy with it. The stats sounded right, but the very heavy pommel skewed the weight distribution. It just wasn't "cutty" enough for me, and it seemed like a small sword trying to pass as a cut'n'thruster. (I ended up fitting the guard from the side sword to a VA 303S arming sword, and I like that much better---it's more CUT and thrust than cut and THRUST.)
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 30, 2011 20:37:34 GMT
That sounds kinda cool... would like to see that.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Apr 30, 2011 22:04:50 GMT
Sean:
I am actually ridiculously pleased with the way it's turned out----or, better said, the way it's turning out, since I'm not done with the grip yet. I left the grip almost as long as the original arming sword, which allows you to hold the sword in a variety of manners (hammer, handshake, one finger over the ricasso or two fingers over) depending on how much point control you're looking for.
It took me a long time to get around to it, but it shouldn't take me too much longer to do up a proper post, with pictures and explanations.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on May 9, 2011 3:10:29 GMT
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) but A&A makes some totally sweet looking heavy rapiers.
