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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2011 16:39:35 GMT
Also, another thing I've been meaning to ask. What exactly does the number (440, 1060, 1095) have to do with anything about the blade? Most likely something about a carbon count in the blade, but what specifically does that mean? The reason I'm asking this is because on trueswords.com you can search Musashi by style and price....and I went to the 1060 catagory and there are some nice ones there and are about the same price as the blue bamboo and wanted to know what all that ment as terms of what I'm going to end up getting when I buy another thing is that what is HRC? And I've only seen 55 for the HRC, is that decent?
Differentially and tempered blades are another thing that confuses me. Thanks guys for being supportive and helpful.
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Post by Wes on Apr 17, 2011 17:38:08 GMT
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Post by Elheru Aran on Apr 17, 2011 19:31:07 GMT
HRC is a reference to something called the Rockwell Hardness; it's a measure of just how hard the metal is. 55 is decent, if I remember correctly, but...
Differential hardening (DH) and through hardening (TH) are two different ways of hardening a blade (any blade, not just a sword). DH is when you harden one part of the blade and not another; 'different', obviously. Universally, it's the edge of the blade that's hardened, leaving the spine softer. TH is when you harden the whole blade to the same degree. The HRC on a DH blade, then, can often be different on one part of the blade than it is on another.
Performance wise, there's really little to no difference between DH and TH. The only difference these hardening methods make is to the overall strength of the blade and its flexibility, things like that. For example, katana blades are often DH; if you make a bad cut with one, it can take a 'set' or bend in the blade, due to the harder edge not flexing back to straight.
Overall, the rule of thumb is that what honestly matters with ANY sword is whoever is using it, not how well made the sword is. A skilled swordsman can cut, thrust, and otherwise perform with any blade; a poor swordsman may be okay with one type of blade, but be lousy with another, because he/she is incapable of changing their technique to accommodate the different blades. All that a well-made, good sword does, is help you use it better; a poor sword will be harder to use skilfully.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2011 20:33:36 GMT
So....then...it would be better for me (most likely going to make many bad cuts) to get the DH so that it will bend and reset once I hit badly?.....That's what I'm getting from that....so...a TH would probably snap if I hit it badly once right? Because of how brittle it would be? right? And I by no means am a good swordsman....(who'da thought)....so I plan on a few errors. I'm trying to find out as much about my purchase before I can even buy the sword (due to lack of money). So yeah....correct me if I'm wrong. And any other things I should look out for. And also, to restate a question that wasn't fully answered. The 1060 series....is that decent thing to buy from? www.trueswords.com/advanced_sear ... =2a&page=1 And also....what makes the bamboo katanas....bamboo? |
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 17, 2011 20:38:45 GMT
The TH blade will take the most bend without setting. For a beginner, a 1045 or 1060 TH blade would be ideal. A DH blade will take a set much easier than a TH blade. So to simplify, a 1045 or 1060 TH blade. Musashi makes both for cheap, and are a good deal for the money. I know that all of this is confusing as hell at first, so I hope this helps.
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Post by Maynar on Apr 17, 2011 20:39:55 GMT
The theme of the fittings.  |
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Post by Elheru Aran on Apr 18, 2011 0:56:15 GMT
I can see how my post might have been a little confusing. TH is better for beginners by all means-- it's generally a little tougher overall because you don't have areas of different hardness pushing against each other when the blade contacts its target (or the cutting stand, or a concrete block, or a unfortunately placed nail... etc). DH is usually better for more skilled technique as it *won't* easily re-set if you put a bend into it, because the hardened edge is more difficult to straighten than the softer back of the blade.
Also, TH is usually cheaper... always a plus! Oftentimes, on katana at least, it'll come with a cheap acid-etched or wire-brushed hamon; this may be your thing, maybe not, but easily removable either way.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 3:55:04 GMT
Is it standard for a TH blade to not have a true hamon?
I'm trying to get my list together of what I think I want.
So far it consists of:
1060 Carbon Steel
A decent (or at least present) Bo-Hi
Through Hardening
Around a 50 HRC (if stated)
and (most likely) a brand Musashi
And I'd like a "geometry" that allows plastic bottles and a "half a roll" to be sliced....(the name of that mat escapes me)
Also, hamons look nice in my oppinion.....except for the wire brushed ones.....
An interesting Tsuba would be nice as well with a decent (not cheapy-plastic looking saya) (these aren't top priorities though)
Just wanted to know if there was anything wrong with my list or something I should change since I'm a beginner and things that I'd probably never get in my sub-100 price range. Also I'm in the USA so yeah....if that helps...
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Post by f.m. on Apr 18, 2011 4:09:21 GMT
if you can possibly spare $125, from what i've heard a 1045 cheness (available on KoA too) has way better, higher quality fittings than musashi, but i'm not a katana guy so i'll shut my mouth before I get in trouble about that  but i know from buying euro swords, there are a lot better $300 swords out there than 1-200 swords, and from what i understand that translates to katanas too. I'd say put your budget as high as you can stand, possibly save up longer..a little more money seems to go a long way in quality control. matter of fact, as your collection grows you'll find yourself getting nicer and nicer stuff all of a sudden  |
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 18, 2011 4:29:43 GMT
Any TH blade will not have a true hamon, as it is the claying process to make a differentially hardened blade that creates the hamon. It's sounding more and more like Musashi is your best bet for what you want at your desired price. On a DH, the back of the blade is covered with clay and the edge is left bare or with a much lighter coat so that it cools more rapidly than the back. This is what causes the hamon.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 6:21:29 GMT
musashi are the only swords under a c note that i trust for cutting, windlass has some sabers on kultofathena but if you want them sharp you gotta pay an extra $18 and then there's shipping which puts em close to the hundred dollar mark. so bam, pretty much all you need to start out right there, real hardcore beginners should avoid the zetsurin and shirasaya for safety reasons but everything else is super poop. www.trueswords.com/musashi-sx.htmlif you're scared of the $55-$60 swords being decent cutters, this video oughta put them fears to rest. |
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 18, 2011 6:24:21 GMT
"real hardcore beginners should avoid the zetsurin and shirasaya for safety reasons but everything else is super poop."
---"Super Poop." I cannot begin to tell you how much I like that.
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Post by Deepbluedave on Apr 18, 2011 10:50:31 GMT
I thought all sword collectors were poor, if not at the start they all end that way, welcome DarkDove
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Post by Lobster Hunter on Apr 18, 2011 11:54:38 GMT
I recommend one of these. Musashi Gekkou $74.95 All of these 4 Musashi swords use the same differentially hardened 1060 carbon steel bo-hi blades. They're very light and fast but underpowered for medium+ targets. Likelihood of taking a set on a bad cut is high. The real hamon looks nice though. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SS809BK&name=Musashi+Gekkou+KatanaMusashi Hanabria $74.95 www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SS789&name=Musashi+Hanabria+KatanaMusashi Jurrai $74.95 www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SS808BK&name=Musashi+Jurrai+KatanaMusashi Tomoe $74.95 www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SS784&name=Musashi+Tomoe+Katana+Cheness Ichi Maru $129.95 Through hardened 1045 carbon steel blade with bo-hi, fake acid etched hamon. The low carbon content means the blade will be a bit soft and will dull faster with repeated cutting. Against hard targets, the edge might roll as opposed to chip. However, the blade is thicker and more robust than the above Musashis. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=CI19804&name=Cheness+1045+Ichi+Maru+Katana+with+Bo-HiMunetoshi Take $129.98 Differentially hardened T10 steel (similar to 1090 carbon steel) solid body blade. Seems like a decent, robust kat suitable for heavier targets. Here's a.jordan's review: forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3926www.swordnarmory.com/Handmade-Munetoshi-Take-T10-Katana-Samurai-Sword-B-p/jh-3103bk.htmMunetoshi Tomoe $148.98 Through hardened T8 steel (not sure about its characteristics) solid body blade. Blade geometry is supposedly optimized for extra smooth cutting through light to medium targets. www.swordnarmory.com/Handmade-Munetoshi-Tomoe-T8-Katana-Samurai-Sword-B-p/hm-237bk.htmMunetoshi Matsu $159.98 Differentially hardened T10 steel blade with bo-hi. www.swordnarmory.com/T10-Steel-Hand-Forged-Katana-Sword-w-Nylon-Case-p/hm-238bk.htmHanwei Practical $164.95 Differentially hardened solid body blade. Not sure about carbon factor but probably around the 1060 range. someone might chime in on this. This model has been THE standard for cheap but good functional katana for many years. The ray skin panel is plastic, unfortunately. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=PC1070&name=Hanwei+Practical+Katana+ClassicHanwei Practical Light $164.95 Slightly lighter version of above. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SH2376&name=Hanwei+Practical+Light+KatanaCheness Mokko $174.95 Through hardened 1060 carbon steel blade with bo-hi, fake acid etched hamon. Diamond shaped reinforced tip, good balance. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=CI001830&name=Cheness+1060+Mokko+Katana+w%2F+Bo-HiSorry, I just don't have enough experience with sub $100 swords, so most of these are over that mark. These are some of the better low cost swords out there. Once your budget gets in the $150 to $250 range, the overall quality can dramatically improve. Hope this helps. |
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Post by ecovolo on Apr 18, 2011 16:13:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2011 3:48:42 GMT
Out of all the suggestions....I'm tied/torn between two of them based on different reviews.....the....well...not exactly sure what its name is... 1060- Clay Tempered Samurai Sword www.trueswords.com/musashi-1060- ... -5681.html And the Bamboo Katana - Blue saya www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... +Blue+Saya ....I really want to make sure that I get the best one for the price....and the fact that the hamon is real on the Clay tempered suggests that its a DH (I think).......which some what scares me from what I believe to be correct....However...not much info at all is available on the Blue saya at all which scares me as well...but I've heard good things about it early on....so...yeah...a bit of enlightenment on the two would be nice. I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again. Thank you all for your contributions and helping me along.... |
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Post by Maynar on Apr 19, 2011 4:05:21 GMT
Those two Musashis are pretty much identical blades, so all you have to worry about is, which fittings appeal to you more? They both appear to be clay tempered. I know the Bamboo is. And the wrap is alternating as well.
Also the Bamboo comes in black (and red too) saya so if you're not crazy about blue, you have choices. I just grabbed the blue link as it was the one that came to hand first....
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 19, 2011 5:35:10 GMT
They are both a part of Musashi's "Shirakawa" line. As far as I understand it, they are pretty much the same as far as the blade. You may get small differences, but even in production models(as this is) this will happen. Maybe you should go to the Musashi Swords site and see if there is another you like more, as they show more designs. I'm not sure about ordering from them, they seemed to be having some problems as they were changing their line-up last I checked, but that may be all cleared up. There is also a coupon code for them, as well as others, at the SBG sword store. Here is the location. www.sword-buyers-guide.com/discount-swords.html. |
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 19, 2011 14:23:58 GMT
Musashi will beat any price by 5% so long as it's exactly the same offer including any little extras. And yes, the shirakawa line are all built from the same 1060 DH blades. Keep an eye on what is in stock though- for example the KOA link to the blue saya'd one has been on back order for ever, and many choices on Musashi's site are out of stock.(edit- looks like they may have just restocked and updaed the website since I was last on it) www.musashiswords.com/shop/home.php |
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Post by Elheru Aran on Apr 19, 2011 14:24:32 GMT
Musashi tends to 'shotgun' the market, as I call it, by churning out a LOT of very similar katana blades, and then just mounting a bunch of similar fittings on them and just changing out the colours. On the one hand, this is a cheap measure, kind of lame... on the other, it does mean that the blade quality, at least, is going to be consistent. So, if Musashi Katana X "Blue" isn't a great deal, you know that Musashi Katana X "Red" may be about the same quality, but Katana B "Yellow" may be a better deal because it comes from a better batch...
What it comes down to is check the reviews and ask around before buying-- true of ANY sword! I will add my personal observation that most people are happy enough with the Musashi as a CHEAP katana; those expecting a BETTER katana are going to be disappointed.
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but i know from buying euro swords, there are a lot better $300 swords out there than 1-200 swords, and from what i understand that translates to katanas too. I'd say put your budget as high as you can stand, possibly save up longer..a little more money seems to go a long way in quality control. matter of fact, as your collection grows you'll find yourself getting nicer and nicer stuff all of a sudden 
