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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 14, 2011 1:16:13 GMT
I find myself in a bit of a conundrum with a sword design of mine. The design originally calls for a katana with a trimmed down tang to make it into a one handed sword. But, I got to thinking, "this sword is supposed to be a quick cut-n-thruster; would a katana really meet that need?" So, I looked at cutlasses/short sabers (something with a 27" blade) and wondered if they could be described as quick, while still retaining a decent cutting ability. Since I have full intent on making this design real one day, I'd like to find out which would suit my needs better and I'd appreciate any help I could get on it.
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Post by ShooterMike on Apr 14, 2011 1:27:14 GMT
I would say absolutely yes they could be. I have an original Austrian M1831 Artillery saber that is in unissued condition, though it has quite a bit of stabilized surface corrosion. I consider it to be one of the quickest swords in my collection. Since it's never been sharpened I can't attest to its cutting ability. But it's a common military issue saber from the early 1800s, with a shorter-than-normal blade (about 29"). Never seen one of those that was shabby in the cutting and slicing department.
I think the key would be to start out with very thick stock, do some radical distal taper in the first 6-10 inches, then reduce the distal taper until the last 6-8 inches where it would increase again.
While we think of cutlasses as a crude "every sailor's" weapon, I have handled half a dozen original "short sabers" from the late 1700s thru the mid 1800s that were very light and frighteningly fast. Much more so than any modern replica I have come across.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 14, 2011 1:35:07 GMT
Thanks for the quick reply, Mike! I suppose the distal taper you mentioned could possibly rule against using the katana, since I don't believe they have much, if any distal taper, which could make it a shade too heavy, but I'm not sure on that one; I'm not much of a smith.
EDIT: Speaking of sabers, I remembered I'd seen you cutting with that AT Saber of yours, Mike, and it was very quick.
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 14, 2011 4:36:55 GMT
That was all Mike's awesomeness... I got that saber off him and tried duplicated the multiple cuts he was doing... and I sucked. For me I actually found the saber was a bit heavier then I expected... Mike made it look so easy in that vid. :roll:
I've handled many cutlass that were super fast... because most of them have a fairly built up hilt the weight is in your hand not the blade, so they are QUICK. Some cutter better then others... that has a lot to do with blade weight distribution and geometry. But a well made cutlass (I want to get one made, BTW) can be lighting quick and a brutal cutter and stabber.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 14, 2011 4:40:50 GMT
Ah, I kinda figured. I've seen him cut with many different swords and all I've gotta say is I do not want to face that man with a sword.
Hmm. Thanks for telling me, Sean; now I need to figure out if Ithin has enough weight in the hilt as is to make it a quick sword.
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Post by LittleJP on Apr 14, 2011 13:13:07 GMT
Actually, having too much weight in the hilt is detrimental, as someone who's owned the Hanwei Sidesword, I'd try to find a balance of sorts.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 14, 2011 13:25:00 GMT
At least for a cutting sword, I'd say. Ithin'll have a Ming Dynasty jian styled hilt from cast bronze, which is why I'm not entirely sure there's enough weight in the hilt to make a quick cut-n-thrust sword. |
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 14, 2011 16:46:32 GMT
Depends on the sword... with a short, say 22-25 inch cutlass with a wide enough blade and a bit of a curve to it... a lot of weight in the hilt would make it a very fast sword for use in close quarters without really taking away any cutting because of a good blade design...
The Sdiesword just kinda sucked. Looked pretty, but sucked. Also, the blade on that sword, not optimized for cutting at all.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 14, 2011 16:55:23 GMT
About how wide would you say? 1 1/4" - 1 1/2"?
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 14, 2011 17:08:56 GMT
Hard to say, I'm no swordmaker... but the Cutlass I like most have a pretty wide blade at the base and have a decent amount of distal and profile taper towards the tip... and are somewhat short, in the 22-25 inch length range. Those swords were fast and durable.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 14, 2011 17:29:16 GMT
I'll keep that in mind. I was scaling down the overall size earlier (35" overall with a 27" blade as opposed to 37.5" overall with a 29" blade) and noticed Brenno's NeverNever Grow Up is roughly the same size; in his post on here about it, he said it feels fantastic in hand. I don't know much about what a decent amount of distal taper is, but just from the listing on his site, it goes from 6mm at the base to 3.5mm at 2" from the tip.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Apr 14, 2011 18:19:15 GMT
lets just say i did exactly that, i cut a full size katana down to saber handle length and the creation was hence forth to be called....THE WRIST BREAKER. its heavy as &^%$ with a katana blade and saber handle and one bad swing and youl hear your wristbones pop and twist... it LOOKS awesome, can deliver a powerful cutting blow, but it punishes the user just as much as the target. i still love the sword
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 14, 2011 18:28:50 GMT
In all fairness, however, your design had little in the way of hilt weight. A short wood grip and that was it; still looks cool, though.
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 14, 2011 18:33:54 GMT
Awhile back Mr. Justice was selling a Katana bladed Scottish hilted sword, a very interesting looking frakensword it was... I almost bought it.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 14, 2011 18:40:59 GMT
I remember it very well. I was very tempted to bum the money from a friend so I could get it. As I mentioned in my design thread, that's part of the inspiration for Ithin.
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Post by 14thforsaken on Apr 14, 2011 18:54:30 GMT
A lot of how quick it will be depends on the user. No matter how balanced the cutlass is, I probably would be pretty slow with it as I am not used to one. On the other hand, I am very quick with bastard swords since I have the most experience there. Plus having large hands and strong wrists helps too.  |
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Apr 14, 2011 19:23:36 GMT
Very true; very true. Good thing the scaled down version of Ithin is relatively close to a wakizashi in size and almost exactly the same size as a spatha (the only swords my character uses for any period of time during the books before buying Ithin).  |
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Apr 14, 2011 21:32:32 GMT
you are correct in that my handle had very little weight, better balance would make it better, like i said i really like the sword and it can deliver crushing powerful blows,
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Herron's Flight by Brendan of Fable Blades
