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Post by romanzavod on Mar 18, 2011 9:02:27 GMT
Hi guys, I´m just considering to buy Kit Rae damascus limited edition weapon but I would like to hear your opinion regarding comparisson of Damascus vs Normal Stainless Steel edition: kitrae.net/fantasy/images/KR0025D_Spec.jpg Damascus vs kitrae.net/fantasy/KR25.html normal stainless steel Damascus edition costs 3 times more and I dont know if the quality of damascus steel really corresponds to such price difference or it is more like marketing stuff such as damascus limited edition of 100 pieces - please pay triple price  etc... To avoid any doubts I would NOT use it as functional weapon in any way. So what you think is it really worth to invest into Damascus steel replica ? Thank you for your input and opinions Regards Roman |
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Post by Stromlo_Swords_USA on Mar 18, 2011 10:11:46 GMT
Hi Roman,
Welcome. I have brought for customers some of the United Damascus Heroes Swords (United and Kit Rae are the same company) and I gotta tell you I was pretty impressed with the job they did. Definately unique. Given they are going to sit on the wall, the DM versions "may" not loose their value and sure are pretty. Which one are you looking at?
Cheers, Rob
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Post by romanzavod on Mar 18, 2011 10:40:18 GMT
Well in fact to be honest in case I make my decision I will take all damascus version currently available from Kit Rae except one I dont like which is KR0007D where I prefer normal version.
Thanks for your feedback
Roman
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SanMarc
Senior Forumite
Posts: 3,193
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Post by SanMarc on Mar 18, 2011 18:41:38 GMT
Here is the deal, pay the big price and the Folded steel sword will one day be worth about $250 when ya go to sell it, get the Stainless one and you will be lucky to give it away, wont be worth $50......Sanmarc.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Mar 18, 2011 18:57:23 GMT
well put SanMarc. although i couldnt justify paying so much for a wall hanger ever...
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Post by romanzavod on Mar 18, 2011 19:21:36 GMT
Well I aint doing this as future investment and I aint planning to sell it in the future. I just wanted to know if there is really such a huge material quality, level of details etc. to pay triple price for damascus edition.
Anyway thanks for opinions.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Mar 18, 2011 19:52:21 GMT
For my part:
I would not be surprised to find out that "Damascus" in a Kit Rae is just fancy etching instead of actual folded steel.
Given that these are almost totally nonfunctional, let me put it this way: even if that's real pattern-welded/folded steel, all you're paying extra for are a.) Cool Factor (pretty much the only reason anybody buys a Kit Rae), b.) the extra work that goes into putting something out that's otherwise identical to the stainless steel version. There is a meager intrinsic value in the 'Damascus' version as opposed to the plain stainless steel, but honestly, it's probably not much more. You're paying for a brand name is what it comes down to; Nike sneakers versus Walmart runners. Probably made at the same factory by the same people, but the prestige of one brand allows them to charge more than the other. And with wall-hangers like these, Kit Rae and United Cutlery are up there.
To sum it up: I don't think there's much more to warrant 3x the price of the stainless steel sword for the Damascus blade. It's your money though, and like SanMarc said, you can probably sell the Damascus one for a better price later if you ever do. At Kult of Athena, it's around $330... you could buy a functional sword for about half that.
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Post by romanzavod on Mar 18, 2011 20:09:00 GMT
Well according to Sword maker : "Mithrodin features a hand forged blade of Damascus steel folded 256 times to 1792 layers for superior strength and flexibility." www.kitrae.net/fantasy/images/KR0025D_Spec.jpgIf I understand you correctly you doubt that this statement is true and there is no real quality and manufacturing procedure difference between stainless and damascus edition ? Well guys, I do know that most of you here despise of non functional wall hangers, but I simply cant help myself I do like Kit Rae design and level of details of his swords and knives  |
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Mar 18, 2011 20:55:07 GMT
I wouldn't pay 3x more for the 'Damascus' edition.
If your just going to hang it on the wall and have it look 'kewl'... which, lets be honest, is all you can and should do with Kit Rae stuff, is the pattern on the blade going to make the thing THAT much cooler that its worth 3x as much? I wouldn't think so. As for the makers claim "Mithrodin features a hand forged blade of Damascus steel folded 256 times to 1792 layers for superior strength and flexibility"... even if it were true, which I doubt... who cares? What good is superior Strength and Flexibility in a sword you can't actually use??? Its useless... it will never be a fighting weapon... so if I'm going to decorate my walls with it, I'd do so with the more affordable one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2011 21:00:21 GMT
Hey Roman. Because these are both display swords, there may be some other factors you'll want to consider. The "damascus" model is likely be done with a medium carbon content steel folded with a high iron steel. Because it's not intended as a real sword, it's likely that Kit Rae will not have put much attention into the tempering process (if any). But the sword will need regular maintenance to keep rust in check. The stainless steel model will not. Personally, I'm not against display swords. I even have one, although it's really just a kat with a bad temper (hmmm, why does that conjure up an image of a house cat with a toothache?). Anyhow, the stainless model is available here: kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=KR25AMy thoughts on this are that a pseudo-damascus blade at $300 is too pricy. But if Kit Rae art is your thing, $100 for a 420 stainless is a whole lot easier to swallow. |
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Post by Hiroshi on Mar 18, 2011 22:35:22 GMT
I wouldn't buy it at all, they lie on the spec sheet Notice below it says "folded 256 times to 1792 layers" totally made up bull semprini.  Folding 20 times makes 1048576 layers. so 256 would make quite a bit more. If they can't even make up believable lies I wouldn't trust them to even process the sale correctly. There is a reason why most reputable sword smiths who produce folded steel swords only fold the blade 10-20 times! |
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Mar 18, 2011 22:59:34 GMT
good call Hiroshi! i thought the spec looked....innaccurate. But i didnt know the real proportions to layers vs folds. +1 for catching a fraudulent add!
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Post by Elheru Aran on Mar 18, 2011 23:12:13 GMT
It's marketing copy for the market that buys Kit Rae... in other words, non-sworders who care far more about the looks and monetary value of the blades they purchase than actual functionality. The reason United Cutlery swords are still kicking around, really. Not so much deliberately fraudulent as it is an ad-guy going "hey this sounds awesome, I bet this will get a lot more people to buy this!"
It is somewhat excruciating for the real swording crowd to have to endure this kind of thing, though, to be honest. I agree with Dodger-- if he has to get something like this, get the stainless steel version as it's low-maintenance and you should have no illusions about its functionality.
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Post by Hiroshi on Mar 19, 2011 4:13:26 GMT
deliberate or not, It's still false advertisement.
That would be like saying a car has 4 cylinders making 2,000 HP. When really it's got a 6 making 250 HP.
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Mar 19, 2011 5:12:24 GMT
United Cutlery does have that one line that actually is relatively functional: The United Black Series. I did a review on the United Black 1045 Shikyo a while back at the old site, and it *actually cuts*, and cuts well ( www.swordcompany.com/sc-uc2585.html). 99% of the the fittings on the UC Black blades are all modern-looking and probably wouldn't be let near any dojo (consider the Shikyo :mrgreen: ), but it's a functional low-cost cutter. That's the only good thing I can say about UC, though. You're right about the rest of their products-- mostly stuff for show/ costume bits. Eh, if the buyer goes with the idea that they're looking for a costume piece for a convention or something, more power to them. I'd love to see an SBG review done of this blade. Hell, I'd love to see a forge make a blade like this one that's practical, just for sh*ts and giggles  . --Edward |
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Post by 14thforsaken on Mar 19, 2011 5:18:12 GMT
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Mar 19, 2011 5:23:34 GMT
So there *was* a review! Cool! +1 Karma for spotting it.
--Edward
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Post by romanzavod on Mar 19, 2011 8:13:18 GMT
Hi all, Thanks a lot for your opinions and valuable input. Based on the facts and arguments I made up my mind and I will go for stainless version for those swords used for display purpose only. To be honest, I´m quite dissappointed that even renowned brand name is using false marketing statements to attract more customers On the other hand, the money I saved from not buying Damascus versions i.e. 600 USD price difference for 3 swords I will put to save for my first battle ready sword, so I can enjoy also some real world of swinging and cutting outside. After reading some reviews, recommendations and money I will have at my disposal after next month salary I would go for : kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AMS1101or kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AMS1008Thanks a lot for advice guys Take Care Roman |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 13:09:11 GMT
Have to admit, wasnt expection albions on those links. I would go with the viking one just on looks, thouugh I can't say I like either. I can't personally speak for the quality, but albions seem to be regarded among the best. But Both of those have a 2-3 month wait. If you don't mind that you are much more patient than I. Otherwise I would suggest looking on triedandtruearmory.com/econ/inde ... ommon/home to see if you like anything. It's less expensive and if it's in stock, no wait. Also I cant recall seeing anyone say anything bad about an Atrim on here. |
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Post by Elheru Aran on Mar 19, 2011 13:36:29 GMT
Albions *are* some of the best production swords. There's no question about that. The only question is whether they're honestly worth the steep prices they charge, and IMO, they are for the most part. Not that I'd complain if they were like $200-500 less in general, though!
But Atrims will bring you just about the same quality of blade for a much better price, and honestly, the blade is like 90% of a sword anyway. Nice fittings and grip are just icing on the cake.
If you want a lower-end but still good product, the Hanwei/Tinker line are generally good. They're lacking as far as their edges go but if you put in the 'special requests' box when ordering at KoA that you want one with a good edge they'll try to comply with that. Valiant's Practical line are also good, they're Atrim blades, and the Signature line isn't half bad either-- slightly less expensive than Tried and True's Atrims, and they come as the complete package (belt, scabbard, etc).
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