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Post by Ilúvatar on Mar 28, 2011 4:48:24 GMT
Hiroshi,
would you mind telling me which?
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Mar 28, 2011 5:30:12 GMT
Indeed, Hiroshi. This isn't so much a challenge to you to prove your claim as much as the sub $300 market is where I live so hearing as many good leads as I can is an invaluable endeavor for me. I had heard many great things about Ronin Katanas products, but upon arrival I found that the fittings on my Kaze, which are the same as most if not all of the Cheness offerings, were more to my likings in fit and finish. When dealing with these lower price ranges I often read replies to the effect of, "Don't get this $250 Katana, just get the $400 Bamboo Mat, or a $1000 Bugei." I'd love to, of course, but as I said the sub $300 is where I am.
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Post by Student of Sword on Mar 28, 2011 5:56:01 GMT
A.Jordan,
I have a Chenes Delux iaito, the DF Musha, and a Hanwei Raptor. We are only talking about fit and finish since the iaito is non-cutting. All of them are sub-$300 and we also assume that the iaito has the same level of fit and finish as other Cheness. In my opinion the later two are better in term of quality compare to Cheness. The cotton ito on the DF is better, the tsuka and saya are better shape. As far as the Raptor, the fittings (tsuba, fuchi, and kashira) are definitely better.
So Cheness can either lower the price or improve the quality and they would be competitive, just by a little. But Cheness in term of value for money is still better than Cold Steel. CS Warrior katana is closed to $300 and is the most expensive of the sub-$300 and it is only better than Cheness in term of fit and finish. CS uses cheap steel so they just increase the mass of the blade to compensate.
Once upon the time, Cheness's fame were "cheap" and "tough." Neither is true anymore.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Mar 28, 2011 6:25:07 GMT
Thanks for the comparison. I have been looking at both the Raptor and the DF Musha. As I understand it, both are TH, and both are tough and well shaped/made. In your opinion, which is the better sword? I know that it's a tricky question for most and most will give a "That depends on what you are looking for" type answer, but if you could only keep one, which would it be? Also, I had no real idea that Cheness had fallen that far behind. Lastly, I just want to say that any question I ask or statement I make on here is purely out of curiosity. I like everyone here, so if I ever write a seemingly contrary post it's not really that. I'm still learning and I used to just bother Paul Southern with all of my questions, but now I can bother all of you!
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Post by Student of Sword on Mar 28, 2011 6:33:21 GMT
A. Jordan,
I have both DF Musha and Hanwei Raptor and could not make up my mind which one I like more. I like the Raptor balance better. But I like DF Musha tsuka shape and saya shape better. The fitting quality (tsuba, fuchi, kashira) is about the same. If I have absolutely make a choice and only get to keep one, I would just toss a coin.
PS: If you are gifted with your hand. Go for the Munetoshi T-10. Some their fittings and ito are cheesy, but the blades are excellent. Their main flaws are synthetic ito and alloyed fuchi/kashira (the tsuba are actually good). If you can do tsuka-maki, then just replace it with better fuchi/kashira and rewrap it with quality Japanese cotton ito, everything should come well under $300.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Mar 28, 2011 7:33:30 GMT
Sweet idea. TomK said that the Munetoshi T10 Matsu is superb. I'm not gifted with my hand, but I can probably do it with practice. My next item will be a KC katana, but I'm now looking forward to a Munetoshi "learn on the job" project as well.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Mar 31, 2011 15:05:29 GMT
I'm pretty much at a standoff between the raptor unokubi (really love the style of blade) and the kaze. I'm definatly needing some pointers here as i dont want to waste 300 some odd dollars for a piece of crap.
As far as the raptor goes, i love the blade geometry. Looks good, and seems to be a great cutter. how is the edge retention in comparison to the kaze? Also i dont like the ito on it, for one i prefer brown. (points to the kaze.) And i dont like the battle wrap style of wrapping. I prefer the kazes style, hineri maki i belive?? Second I dont like gold menuki or fittings, i do like the raptor theme, but the gold menuki feathers would have to be a different color, Blackish is fine. I really dont care about a real hamon if the edge is tougher than a DH sword, the touger one wins, hamons do look cool though.
All in all if i get the raptor im re making the tsuka. Something i dont want to have to do unless the kaze is really not as good as the raptor. My reasoning for this purchase is to learn any type of cutting related martial art, and if the end of the world as we know it hits in our lifetime, to be able to cut down any opponent that threatens my life, and for the blade to be able to stand up to combat close to the way swords stood up back in old japan.
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ghost
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Post by ghost on Mar 31, 2011 17:38:00 GMT
Hey Zen
why not consider a Kris Cutlery Kat? I have a raptor and I think it's great for the price point. (it's my beater)
However, the KC is undoubtedly just as tough if not more so for a DH blade. I think it's the toughest katana you can get sub $1000. It is a heavy cutter with a noticeable amount of niku (maybe the only in the sub300 price range) The downside is you may need to customize the saya and tsuka.
I feel that the KC is vastly superior to both the raptor and kaze.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Mar 31, 2011 17:49:30 GMT
Huawei does some beautiful shirasaya unokubi-zukuri katanas for under $200, even with hamon. Granted, they've got somewhat spotty QC-- they source from different forges, so you get different results-- but you can be fairly sure you'll get a decent product once it's finished. The quote they gave me was $130 without hamon (TH I think), 180 with, that was for shirasaya though. With fittings it's probably a bit more expensive. It's still one of the options out there, though...
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Post by frankthebunny on Mar 31, 2011 18:41:15 GMT
just a quick note on Huawei. the samegawa they use is the tanned leather kind so I don't feel it's worth the extra cost to have a full wrap done. I've also noticed that on many of their ebay listed DH swords the hamon gets pretty close to dropping off the edge of the blade.
I only mention these things so anyone ordering a custom sword from them can know better what to ask for and what to avoid.
otherwise, I think they are very decent swords for the price point.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Mar 31, 2011 21:41:29 GMT
GRRRR so many options. I'm very anal about edge retention. Is a TH unokubi raptor gonna put out for me??
(keep in mind, i plan on using this sword for the apacolypse lol, so bones stuff would be regular cutting excercises)
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Post by zentesukenVII on Mar 31, 2011 21:45:18 GMT
And whats with this seller Hauwei?  ?? i always thought people were just typoing hanwei.............yet another source of katanas...... |
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Post by Hiroshi on Apr 1, 2011 13:43:08 GMT
Well the raptor uses 5160 steel, and if it means anything that is the steel Angus Trim uses for his swords so you know it's going to hold an edge well & be super tough.
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Apr 1, 2011 14:04:41 GMT
there is a quite plausible theory that Hanwei used the heat treat information they got from Tinker for his line of swords to heat treat the raptors in which case, I completely agree with Hiroshi. the fact that they are made from 5160 steel means exactly nothing. but if Tinker really is the father of the raptor, then yes it should put out for you. Also it is a Hanwei and they are pretty good about turning out good blades that are heat treated well so I'd say that is another sign they will hold an edge decently. I have held a few but never cut with them so I can't really say how good they are in that respect.
but hey as far as I'm concerned, I'd love to see you agonize over this choice a little longer because every day you put off pulling the trigger is a day closer I am to having a horse in this race.
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Apr 1, 2011 14:20:38 GMT
I have only personally seen one sword from Ronin Katana but I have seen and or owned nearly all Cheness models currently on the market, and I have to say that either you got a really bad lemon from Ronin or your tastes in these things is so far different from my own that there's no way I could help you choose a katana. I am very surprised to hear that Cheness fit and finish beat Ronin for you. the Ronin Katana I saw had better fit, finish, and fittings than anything in the sub $300 market I have ever seen and many swords above the $300 mark. I have to admit I'm scratching my head over this one.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 1, 2011 14:55:13 GMT
I was also pretty surprised. I had read several reviews about Ronin and was elated when the SBG store was doing the week special and I was able to get the Tsunami. As far as my tastes go, the Ronin Tsunami fits what I like to a tee. It's just that when I got it I was severely underwhelmed. The wrap was not very tight, the diamonds are uneven and you can plainly see wood in the edges of the diamonds. The kashira was loose, the nakago rattled in the tsuka, there were scratch clusters near the bottom of the blade as well as scuffs near the top. The rattan wrap on the saya is loose and wiggly, and it was chipped. Despite all of this, when hung on the wall below my Kaze, it is still a very attractive sword, and it does cut well. However, when I read reviews from both the site and from independent owners about the outstanding craftsmanship and QC imposed, and then look at and examine mine, I get a little pissy. I have had none of these problems with the Kaze. Although the fittings are cheap, they are solid and well fitted, and the only scuffs are the ones I put there. I've stated this before, but I really do like the Ronin. When I turn my head from the computer and look at it, it looks great. But it still has all of the problems that I stated. Perhaps I did get a lemon, I don't hold Ronin to the standard of a single sword. I hope that I can get one of their 1060 Hagakure models one of these days, it's absolutely gorgeous.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Apr 1, 2011 15:36:59 GMT
Clarification for zentesuken:
Hanwei/Paul Chen is a noted manufacturer of katana and Western style swords. They source their swords directly from one or two factories, and have been in the field for a pretty good time (since late 90s). Quality is generally good to great. Most people are happy with what they get, unless it's just not for them.
Huawei is an Ebay-based seller that sources swords from a number of different craftsmen. Quality is OK-to-good. Customers are usually happy with what they get, as Huawei specializes in custom orders. You just have to be in a 'buyer beware' mindset and be careful with what you order from them; personally what I would do is just order the blade in shirasaya, and then have it outfitted by someone else.
Hope that helps...
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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 1, 2011 19:06:08 GMT
I've definatly considerd gettign it custom mounted, or doing it myself. I think ill buy the sword custom mounted and if its garbage ill re work it. Im good with my hands, i got really good at carving tsukas ad wrapping ito, but the end knot i havent practiced yet because i dont have a extra fuchi and kashira  carving a new saya and/or attaching a kurigata and painting/laquering a shirasaya one is my biggest concern. If you hguys have anyone i can talk to on the forums that does custom mounting, can yall point me in the right direction??? Lohmans is pretty expensive but they look like they are the real deal. I wonder if huawei would let me order just the blade, fittings and saya. So i could just carve and wrap a new tsuka with the fittings they give me.....although i dont think too much of their fittings, id be happy with the dragonfly theme.. |
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Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 1, 2011 19:10:06 GMT
Honestly, if the tsuka is as good or better than my musashi bamboo- which if thats a garbage tsuka i cant imagine what a higher end sword would have!- then id be more than happy with it. I love my bamboo for the tsuka not the blade, steel is pretty soft, chipped te kissaki accidentally hitting my ceiling lamp (i know im retarded) i just wish i could find some reviews on these swords!@!!1%#^$%&#$^*($&^*&#%^
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 1, 2011 19:38:49 GMT
I'm pretty sure that frankthebunny does some work. Just click on his name and go to the cottontailcustoms.com link. Some pretty impressive stuff on their, and for a great price.
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?? i always thought people were just typoing hanwei.............yet another source of katanas......
carving a new saya and/or attaching a kurigata and painting/laquering a shirasaya one is my biggest concern. If you hguys have anyone i can talk to on the forums that does custom mounting, can yall point me in the right direction??? Lohmans is pretty expensive but they look like they are the real deal. I wonder if huawei would let me order just the blade, fittings and saya. So i could just carve and wrap a new tsuka with the fittings they give me.....although i dont think too much of their fittings, id be happy with the dragonfly theme..
Nov 1, 2024 0:13:58 GMT
Nov 1, 2024 0:13:58 GMT
