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Post by wnydel on Mar 10, 2011 13:16:45 GMT
How do you determine a swords specific balance? I think I have experienced the effects of balance first hand. When I ordered my first swords, both were close to 4lbs. I made the mistake of thinking this was light. I even picked up two 2lb dumbbells that my wife owns in one hand and thought how light that felt. While when I got my swords, I was amazed how heavy they felt. Anyway, the one sword that is a few ounces lighter than the other one actually feels noticable lighter, even though it is heavier. I assume this is related to balance? Also, what kind of scales do you use? I have noticed in some reviews that people mention weighing swords themselves.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Mar 10, 2011 14:38:17 GMT
Swords seem to weigh so much more because they are long. With hand weights, all of it is nicely in your hand. With a sword most of the weight is along the length outside your hand. It's like holding a 2x4 in the middle, which is easy, and holding it at its tip, which is much harder. This is leverage. To figure out its point of balance, simply hang it on a finger along the back of the blade until the weight is evenly distributed and the sword balances on it.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Mar 10, 2011 14:49:01 GMT
I assume any digital scale would work to find its weight. Having a balance that is closer or farther away from the handle means it will feel more tip heavy or will make it seem somewhat lighter. Tip heavy means more force can be used in the swing with the same amount of effort, but you will feel less control, especially when it's time to stop or redirect the swing. I hope these help answer your question.
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Post by wnydel on Mar 10, 2011 15:56:53 GMT
Thanks! That does help
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Post by ShooterMike on Mar 10, 2011 19:28:20 GMT
I use an inexpensive fish scale for weighing swords. They are available at most sporting goods stores that sell fishing equipment. You hang the sword off the hook on the scales via a piece of string.
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Post by wnydel on Mar 10, 2011 20:08:47 GMT
Thanks! Fish scale makes sense. I was thinking my home scale wouldn't be that accurate with low weights like that. It tends to register weights higher than they actually are anyway...at least that is what I tell myself every time I get on it
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Mar 10, 2011 23:16:07 GMT
Its amazing how the PoB (Point of Balance) can effect how heavy a sword feels.
I've handled a Viking sword that only weighed about 2 pounds and had a PoB out at about 7 inches... felt really heavy. Then the SBG LeafBlade Bastard Sword weighs over 4lbs, but the PoB is right at the crossguard, so it feels really light.
Very cool.
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Mar 15, 2011 1:18:26 GMT
I too use a digital fish scale to weigh swords. it is pretty accurate too. I also use it to weigh packages that I send to customers and so far the post office has agreed that my scale is very accurate or at least it always agrees with theirs.
there is so much more to balance than merely where the blade balances on a finger but it is one of those things that is really hard to define.
I have two swords that are pretty much exactly the same in specs but quite different in handling
my custom mounted EMSHS and my Antioch (Atrim XII.4)
both are the same weight, the same length, have the same point of balance, and are even the same oakeshott type (XII) but they feel very different in hand. both are excellent swords no doubt there but the ATrim sword is just a lot smoother and even a bit faster while still hitting just as hard.
there's a thing called dynamic balance that is all about where the sword moves and pivots and where the balance feels when it is in hand and being swung. this is a product of how the weight of the sword is spread out along its length. it is also one of those things you have to feel to understand.
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Post by chuckinohio on Mar 15, 2011 5:27:23 GMT
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Post by MOK on Mar 15, 2011 16:58:26 GMT
Another good myArmoury.com article - Understanding Blade PropertiesOne thing to remember is that the center of balance is not by any means all that there is to mass distribution and how it affects handling and the feel of a sword. It's only the most obvious, rudimentary and basic variable, and the easiest to measure. For a simplified example, imagine three 4-foot, 2-pound round steel bars. One is of uniform thickness throughout its length, the second is twice as thick in the middle as at the ends, and the third is twice as thick at the ends as in the middle. They would all have identical weight and center of balance, but would all feel very different when held and handle entirely differently. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2011 6:37:56 GMT
One interesting video about sword balance(katana): They claim that a well balanced katana should able to do that kind of rotation(you should push it a little bit to make it rotate). Is it true? |
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Apr 3, 2011 7:04:16 GMT
If you can balance any object on a point it should rotate when pushed.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Apr 3, 2011 11:35:35 GMT
Yeah it's true. 'course it's also a parlor trick to impress the uninitiated. If you go to Cirque De Soleil you can watch them do the same thing with people.
WHERE the PoB is located on the line of the weapon; how it levers the sword and what impact that has on its handling behavior is what you are really considering.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Apr 3, 2011 20:05:10 GMT
My rule of thumb is that the distance to the grip of the PoB helps determines a sword's role. If the PoB is closer to the grip, it'll be more of a thrusting blade; vice versa, a cutter. Of course, many thrusting swords can cut just as well as many cutting swords can thrust, the weight distribution just makes one action easier than the other. That's my understanding of it, anyway... my Hanwei side sword's blade feels practically weightless, it'd be a really light cutter partly due to the thin blade on it but it's a pretty good thruster. My Tinker Bastard has more weight in the blade, and as such it cuts much better.
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Apr 3, 2011 20:26:30 GMT
there's a certain myth to the POB closer = thrust and farther = cut theory.
yes, having the POB closer to the hand increases the spead at which you can change directions with the point, BUT it also ecourages over steering, decreases the sword's ability to track the point, and makes it easier for your opponent to set aside your thrust. many historic type XV swords have a pob of 6, 8 or even 9-10 inches out. the same is true of antique rapiers.
of course there are several historic cut-oriented swords such as types XI, xa, etc that have 8-10 inch pob as well.
what I'm saying is that the rule of thumb saying closer pob = thrust and farther = cut is not really a hard and fast rule and is very misleading. certainly SOME swords will follow this guidline but many do not. I think what this all means is that there are other factors that determine where a sword's POB should be than its use as thrusting vs. cutting.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Apr 3, 2011 21:25:31 GMT
Of course, I just said it *helps*. What it comes down to ultimately is that as much as various statistics about the sword change, it's one's skill with a blade that really makes it do anything. Do different points of balance, weight distribution, etc, matter? Yes, but an excellent swordsman can do as much with, say, a Viking sword as they can with a katana, a XVIII as they could with a XIII, etc. The only thing that makes a difference in that circumstance is the swordsman's level of skill; blade handling is secondary to that.
Like was commented in another thread after a few videos of James Williams cutting mats, it was remarked that he could probably have done the same thing with a hubcap. Obviously a joke, but it does illustrate the crucial difference that skill makes.
That's a bit of a digression though, and as far as determining PoB and what it does for a blade, I do agree that there are probably several different factors involved. However, as long as the sword is halfway decent, no matter what its statistics are, what it comes down to is how good the swordsman/woman is.
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