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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Mar 6, 2011 23:26:31 GMT
are you refering to the bank robbery incident where the assailants had full auto AK-47s and the cops had nothing but shottys and handguns?
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Post by Bogus on Mar 6, 2011 23:42:15 GMT
Yeah, that one. Well there were several like that but the thing with North Hollywood was the robbers also had full body armor, which the cops' nines and shotties couldn't penetrate. Basically the two guys walked around a neighborhood spraying full auto for about 45 minutes while small-arms fire bounced off their armor. Eventually the police went to a local gun shop and procured some high powered rifles, and the shootout resolved pretty quickly after that. I believe all LAPD patrol cars carry an AR-15 in the trunk now.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Mar 6, 2011 23:56:37 GMT
they should have all along IMHO. all police officers should have SOME FORM OF RIFLE in the trunk. be it an AK, AR15, Hell even a hunting rifle type .223 scope gun.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Mar 7, 2011 0:30:11 GMT
I remember watching that LA shootout live on TV and feeling sick for the people involved. The event sure did change the sort of hardware LEO's down there (and lots of other places) tend to keep handy tho.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Mar 7, 2011 2:04:59 GMT
EDIT: Ok so I got long winded. Sorry - and thanks if you stick with my post long enough to read it all. So back to the OP's topic - I'll break my own rules about not taking photos of my firearms and sharing them - note I made sure not to show any serials - and I'll show what I carry in my trunk. Its an AK variant - stamped receiver, 16" chromed bore barrel, thumbhole stock and open sights. With the thumbhole stock and lack of threads for muzzle breaks (read flash hider or worse yet silencer :shock: :roll: in CA) as well as a lack of a bayonet lug makes it CA friendly. The 30 rd mags are NOT CA friendly but if I'm going to CA I'll leave that at home. I still have some 15 rd and 5 rd mags. When not travelling in to or in CA (haven't done so in nearly 15 yrs and have no intention of going there any time soon so that's not an issue) I keep the mags loaded and in another case. With the rifle unloaded and locked in its hard case and the mags in a separate case its legal to carry around in the trunk in my state. When carried in that capacity I load 68gr FMJ 5.56NATO. If I'm out hunting I load .223 V-Max factory rounds. The firearm is rock solid, accurate out to 100yds (almost 1 MOA) and ultra reliable. Thousands of rounds through this firearm at the range and I've never had a FTF, FTE or misfeed. Every time I load her up and pull the trigger she goes BAM and sends another little bit of lead downrange. Ammo is fairly inexpensive and its quite versatile. She's rugged enough to carry out into any weather that I'm stupid enough to be out in and I can be confident she'll shoot. Easily powerful enough to take deer and smaller game and capable of carrying enough ammo to tackle large groups of dangerous targets (read zombies or other dangerous hominids) if necessary. Even in large dangerous animals (like bear etc) its got enough firepower to put several rounds (or clips) into the target for nullification of the danger. I've always been a big fan of the AK system. I had an old WASR-10 nearly a decade ago that I picked up for less than $200 at a gun show. I decided to beat it into the ground and abused it like nobody should abuse a firearm. Five thousand rounds of dirty Wolf 7.62x39 ammo in one sitting and rapid fire - at one point getting the barrel so hot it had a dull brownish color to it and was emanating so much heat you could warm up your hands just by putting them within 6 inches of the barrel. I dropped the rifle, empty and chamber open (with an empty shell) into a snow bank to cool off. I walked away to shoot another AK while that one cooled. After an hour I picked it up and looked it over. It had snow and ice in the bore and the chamber had been filled with snow and ice. Suicidally I slammed another loaded mag into it and snapped the bolt shut. I pulled the trigger and not surprisingly the rifle went "BAM!" and the re-assuring sound of the bullet pinging off the steel plate 100 yards down range signaled that the rifle was still working. I emptied the 30 rd mag in rapid fire and set the rifle down. A while later I came back to it and dropped a handful of sand into it and cycled the rifle several times and emptied out another mag in rapid fire without failure. I continued to abuse that rifle for over 10,000 rds without a cleaning and had at one point in time buried it in the spring mud then shook it off and emptied several mags immediately afterwards without cleaning. By the time I was done with it it was rusty, dirty and just plain abused. I cleaned it up after its 3 yr long torture test and replaced the now dirty, stained and badly damaged wooden furniture with black composite furniture. I used a dremel to sand off the rust and re-blued it with cold blue. I then gave it to my father as a gift and he still uses it to this day as a short range hunting rifle - and has taken many a deer with it. It still functions without fail despite its horrible ordeal that I put it through. Nothing against the AR platform (I just acquired one and am quite pleased with it - in fact I like it a lot) but I must say I've never heard of an AR taking this kind of abuse and still functioning. In fact my wife commented on the fact that 26 AK types (AKMs, RPKs, Saigas, Norincos etc) and perhaps 100,000 rds of ammo and I'd never had one jam or or misfire that wasn't due to the ammo being bad then I get an AR and I couldn't put 20 rds though it without a FTF. Well I know now that was a magazine issue so nothing can be held against the firearm but still I wouldn't trust an AR to take the kind of abuse I gave my WASR-10 and continue to work.
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Post by chuckinohio on Mar 7, 2011 16:34:10 GMT
I am getting to that point also, but denial will still serve me for a while longer :lol:
I've kicked around the short action Scout Rifle idea for a while, but Jeff Cooper just doesn't have me convinced yet :lol:
The North Hollywood thing did result in the feds charging B&B with a violation.
The ARs were held in evidence by the Police. When the ATF came in to audit their transaction logs and inventory, the ARs were "unaccounted for". Obviously a Police Department property receipt wasn't good enough. I do recall a California District Court Judge issuing a ruling in B&Bs favor, and stating that if the local ATF agents wasted the Governments time like that again, he would have them in irons.
Supposedly, the employees of B&B were loading mags for the police officers. Their directive from the owner was "The police get whatever they need, NOW"
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Post by GUEST on Mar 8, 2011 9:16:09 GMT
Sam H you fire a rifle with snow and ice in the bore you are lucky it did blow up. I hope no one else reading this broad will think just because it's an AK you can do this without causing damage to the rifle or themselfs. Ever fire a rifle with any it the bore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 11:46:40 GMT
My jeep rifle of choice is a Howa .223 bolt action with a Leupold scope. Yes the AK is a robust design and yes it is a very effective cartridge within it's capabilities but every machine has it's limitations. 7.63x39 I believe runs around 45,000 pounds per square inch of escaping hot gas, don't give the hot expanding gas a reason to flow out of anywhere but the barrel. This is not aimed at anybody individually as I am certain you folks who experimented cleared your barrels of obstructions prior to shooting because you still have fingers to type with. :lol: and here is the inevitable AK torcher test video Poor ak :cry:
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Mar 8, 2011 13:37:50 GMT
Fallen - I fully agree with you that doing what I did was stupid. The bore most likely had just snow in it and was easily blown out. I do remember there was ice in the rifle itself though (as in in the action). My torture test of that rifle occurred when I was single and considerably younger. Now I'm married (2nd time) and have 4 kids. Believe me I wouldn't ever consider firing a weapon that had a plugged bore now.
Just a note though - I remember my father telling me that in Vietnam they'd find SKS and AK rifles after combat that were covered in mud - including having mud completely caked up within the bore - and fired completely fine. I'd also asked around about the AK's action and why its so robust and got the answer from many sources that with the way the gas system on the AK works even if the bore is clogged the gases can escape through the gas chamber's vents if the bullet fails to clear the bore.
Anyway I do agree with Fallen though that firing any firearm with the bore plugged is dangerous and should not be done. Hindsight is 20/20. When you're young and wreckless well I'm sure most of you understand what I mean.
EDIT:
Trunkmunk - in the cases of those videos and the AK actually blowing up - I have to say I'm glad to have never encountered that situation personally. I'd guess that in those situations that you showed perhaps the bore jammed prior to the gas port. It shows that the firearms fired prior to exploding - which leads me to think that a bullet failed to leave the bore and was either jammed in the bore before or right over the gas port in the barrel. That being the case such catastrophic failures would definitely be the result... either with that round or the next round being fired.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Mar 8, 2011 13:45:49 GMT
I've over-heated a handguard on occasion, but not like this. My first thought, "Where's his protective eye-wear?" When the AK blows in the above two links, is there something about the design that protects the shooter? Is it only yhe bolt cover that has saved the shooters from more serious injury?
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Sam H
Member
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Post by Sam H on Mar 8, 2011 13:53:19 GMT
I was thinking this too - I noticed that both shooters seemed to have sustained little to no injury during the explosions. Protective eye-wear though is a must. Even when I was wreckless I wore eye protection.
Oh yeah the handguard on fire - umm... I guess if you have full auto fire capabilities and decide to just run ammo through it. I noticed though that the handguard was already on fire prior to the video starting. How much ammo had already been run through that rifle at full auto before this video was started? Did he light the thing on fire then start shooting? Personally if ANY rifle I was holding started on fire I'd eject the mag, clear the chamber and drop the rifle away from ammo and other flammables rather than continue to shoot.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Mar 8, 2011 14:21:13 GMT
I worked with a smith to assemble one from a Remington Mountain. We used an Ashley Scout mount for the forward rail for the scope mount. (I'll post some pix later.) The low power intermediate eye relief scope makes for fast acquisition. I believe some of the gunsite students shot clays with them! (I don't think Rio Salado Sportmans' Club would appreciate me launching FMJ projectiles "over the mountain" toward Mesa and other populated areas.) At the time only Savage offered a Scout Rifle, (click) which in hindsight would have been a much cheaper way to go, but I wanted mine with a 6.5mm bore. Ruger offered their Frontier II in a Scout configuration: He's mounted a Trijicon red dot! (looks high) I found these photos at GunBlast. Worth the read and following the Ruger link. Ruger has updated its Scout: I'm hoping they offer shorter 5-round magazines which fit flush the stock. :?: Thanks for this insight. I'm glad B&B was vindicated. I purchased my first Win70 HBV from B&B in Westminster. I loved browsing--they had an impressive selection of S&W revolvers. I believe they closed in the early 00's.
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Post by GUEST on Mar 8, 2011 16:32:10 GMT
Here my old style Cooper scout carbine sitting in my Dodge 4WD pickup. Remington model 600 Mohawk 308Win cal. Bushnell Trophy 2X-7X scope. A Remington model 600 308Win cal with a Redfeild Golden 5 Star 2x-7X scope. In my Suzuki Samurai. Kind of a scout rifle a Yugo Mauser 98K with a Tasco 2X scope This carbine shouldn't get you in touble carried in the trunk, just not real fast to use, Survival Arms AR 7 semi auto take down 22LR cal carbine Yes I need to clean out the trunk in my car.
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Post by GUEST on Mar 8, 2011 17:19:24 GMT
Do you think I would draw to much attention if I took the soft top off my Suzuki Samurai and mounted this too the rollbar
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Post by Larry Jordan on Mar 8, 2011 17:27:24 GMT
Now those are truck rifles!
I love the Yugo Mauser conversion. Who provides this part? How is scope height? A little high?
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Post by GUEST on Mar 8, 2011 17:36:57 GMT
Yes the scope is a little high on the Mauser. The mount is a B Square I got about 10 years ago, it just replaces the rear sight leaf very easy to install.
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Post by GUEST on Mar 8, 2011 20:05:15 GMT
Sam H sorry I called you out by name, just did want anyone to get hurt thinking they could fire a rifle with something in the bore. Even with just the end of the barrel stopped the AK can blow, the gas venting system won't be fast enough for the rapid built up of pressure.
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Sam H
Member
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Post by Sam H on Mar 8, 2011 20:16:04 GMT
No offense taken there Fallen. I'd rather someone called me out directly if had done something or were advocating doing something that was unsafe in their mind. I'd like to think I'm adult enough to be able to bear some criticism when I've messed up. For that matter if I were saying something that was clearly incorrect I'd rather be called out on it and I don't mind being called out by name if that's the case - unless you were just calling me out to be an ass which I don't think you were doing.
As for the AK I'm sure you're correct. I'm just relaying what I'd been told by others when I was young and still just new to the world of firearms (particularly the AK). However I WILL trust what my father said about finding/taking AKs from the VC in Vietnam that were plugged up with mud and still being able to fire them. Not saying it was safe - just that I don't doubt he did that.
EDIT:
Btw Fallen, I wouldn't give a damned if you drove past me with your RPK mounted on the roll bar (except maybe I'd turn green with envy because you'd have the balls to do something I want to do but won't out of fear of LE :mrgreen: ) but I'm sure your state, county and/or local LEO might have some issues with it... especially if the drum on it was loaded.
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Post by GUEST on Mar 8, 2011 20:55:11 GMT
I'm sure if I showed up at work with it mounted on the roll the Chief would fire me, I'm a campus police officer with the Tulsa public schools. But it sure would get the gang banger attention make them toe the line. Driving around in the country where live I wouldn't draw much attention. I'm not going to do it I don't want to look like a nut case.
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Post by ShooterMike on Mar 8, 2011 21:52:38 GMT
I prevent myself from doing soooo many cool or fun kinda things with just this reasoning. :lol:
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