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Post by Reflingar on Jan 3, 2011 20:44:13 GMT
Hi everybody,
I tried to disassemble my H-T GSOW yesterday, to put those shiny fittings in the oven, and after taking the nut out -to my surprise- the pommel wouldn't budge? I tried many pulling/gentle tapping/etc. to no avail.
Suggestions?
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Luka
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,848
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Post by Luka on Jan 4, 2011 0:06:55 GMT
It happened to me after 1 year of owning and disassembling it regularly... Basically, washers stucks against threads on the tang. You need to pour as much oil as you can in the pommel after removing the nut and then just pull it and try to move it in all directions for as long as it is needed. And when you get it off, I suggest you don't put those washers back into it because it will happen again. It happened to me twice and now I son't use washers anymore. And it was all allright for a year until recently... Weird...
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Post by chrisperoni on Jan 4, 2011 0:17:49 GMT
you could try different washers
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Post by Reflingar on Jan 4, 2011 0:39:26 GMT
Thanks for the advice Luka! Washers? I wasn't aware of their presence...what are they there for?
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Greg
Senior Forumite
Posts: 1,800
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Post by Greg on Jan 4, 2011 8:40:17 GMT
My GSOW didn't have any washers, but I do remember the pommel being a snug fit. Normally this is considered a GREAT thing because it means that the pommel has been properly keyed to the tang and that the metal is incredibly snug.
If you were going to blue the furniture anyway, you might have some success in applying some heat to the pommel. Metal expands when it heats up, so you might be able to ease the pommel off that way. The only problem with this is that if you apply to much heat, you'd run the risk of damage to the grip.
Or, if you have a resonance machine, you could attach it to your blade, find the resonant frequency of the blade and let it run for a few minutes. This would vibrate the metal at a high frequency, which would eventually cause the pommel to loosen itself. However, you probably don't have one of these.
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Post by Reflingar on Jan 4, 2011 15:15:22 GMT
Hi Greg, Yes, I'm glad it is a snug fit instad of the other way around and am confident I will get it off (in a proprer work place next time, not in my living room ). Thanks for the advice, some heat seems like another good trick. And...no, sadly, I don't have one of these resonance machine ...but a few "natural" vibrations could do the trick I think...
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Luka
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,848
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Post by Luka on Jan 4, 2011 18:23:09 GMT
I got two washers in the pommel. Supposedly the nut stays tight longer with them. I might try others but I don't really feel like I need them and I plan to customize the sword and peen it so I wouldn't need them at all.
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Post by Reflingar on May 30, 2011 18:02:23 GMT
Soooo...I never was able to disassemble the damn thing....and I tried numerous times, all I got was none washer out but the rest won't budge one iota...no, the sword doesn't want to cooperate...so I said to myself: "oh, well, let's blue the fittings with Birch Casey blueing solution (since I've been told that the fittings will take the blueing solution, no need to disassemble before putting them under the brush), add a new grip wrap and it will be nice." I must say I wanted to blue because I'm no fan of the mirror finish.
Well, after cleaning/degreasing the pommel and brushing it with 00 steelwool, the pommel didn't take the blueing solution.
So, I decided to sand thoroughly and vigourously, maybe there is a thin coat of laquer or whatever...no, the blueing only takes on little spots, making a few small streaks...sanding again, even more vigourously with coarser grit, dremel tool, etc....no, it just won't blue, except for these few spots, here and there. So I just sanded the whole thing again to a more uniform finish.
Weird?
Any advices, ideas, please?
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Retired Moderator
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on May 30, 2011 18:26:52 GMT
Weird... I've had 3 GSoW's... and like Greg... none of them had any washers.
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ghost
Member
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Post by ghost on May 30, 2011 19:00:28 GMT
Not weird. Gun bluing is a chemical oxidation reaction with metals. HT fittings are stainless (high percentage of chrome in the steel) and therefore very corrosive resistance. Someone mentioned glue bluing as a controlled "rusting" reaction that is sped up. Gun bluing will not work on stainless steel.
You wanted to darken the fittings rather than a specific color? You can probably just acid etch the fittings to darken up the steel. I've done this to some of my stainless Japanese kitchen knives...You're gonna want to use a strong current. Use the salt water electrolytic method...I'm fairly sure the hot vinegar/citric acid way will not work on stainless. It'll turn dark gray/black (i'll toss you a pic if you want)
It's a bummer that you cannot get off the fittings - they color real well in the oven and you stop at the color you want. don't give up on trying to get it off yet - spray wd40 down there like a ninny.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2011 19:14:23 GMT
All of the H/Ts I own have a tiny split lock washer to aid in keeping the pommel tight. You can get rid of it if you like. The downside is I have found that the pommel nut will bottom out (the threaded portion of the tang is often longer than it needs to be) sometimes if you do this. If that is the case you will need to shorten the threaded end of your tang by about 1/8".
If you want to keep the pommel tight use Loctite blue 242 thread locker. Loctite blue will keep the pommel nut from backing off. You will need to make sure the threads on the tang are clean (use a solvent like lacquer thinner) for the thread locker to work. Don't make the mistake of using Loctite red 271, it requires heat to disassemble. I would wait until you have used the sword for awhile to allow the hilt components to settle in (initially the grip will compress some) before applying the thread locker (if you apply it before the grip wood has compressed you will have to tighten the pommel nut later and re-apply the thread locker).
As far as removing the pommel, are you sure there weren't two lock washers on the tang? One (don't remember which anymore) of my H/Ts had two installed (I don't know if this was just a mistake or an expedient way to allow the pommel nut to tighten down without bottoming out). The problem with using the washers is they tend to get tilted at an angle and catch on the threads of the tang when trying to remove the pommel. If you discover that there is a lock washer still on the tang try doing this, re-tighten the pommel nut. This will align the washer back into its normal position. Then loosen the pommel nut just enough so that you feel a little movement (vertically) in the pommel. Pull up on the pommel while gradually loosening the pommel nut. What this does is prevent the lock washer from getting tilted (the bottom of the nut when loosened the right amount stops the lock washer from tilting too much) and hanging up.
As far as bluing the guard and pommel, mine are made of stainless steel and can't be blued easily (there is some maker of bluing solution that claims their solution is able to blue stainless, I never used it so I can't say if it works or not). Others here have found stainless and some have found plain mild steel. Unfortunately it appears Hanwei uses whatever steel is available to make the guard and pommel (not the blade that is of course 5160). Also I suspect that they may be mixing different steels and/or repairing flaws (welding) leading to problems like the one you are having, bluing only taking in some areas.
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Post by Reflingar on May 31, 2011 1:24:14 GMT
First of all: thank you all for your observations and advices.
Shadow: yes, there are washers in some it seems, I already have taken one out but the thing still won't come apart...
Ghost: about the fittings being stainless steel: that's what I thought at first (had read it somewhere?) and why I wanted to disassemble the thing in the first place, when I realized it was jammed: to put the fittings in the oven and then quench in oil. Then, I read a thread on the Hanwei-Tinker line by Tinker himself where he mentioned the fittings being mild steel and, hence, good for blueing using the Birchwood-Casey solution. So I tried. Seems it is not so simple after all. Alas. But some small parts take the blueing... About taking the pommel off: yeah, I tried with two different lubricants until now....and a lot of pulling, tapping (gentle and then not so much), twisting, etc. Oh, yes, and prodding inside the thing with a pick-thingy...Maybe I'll try again later, when I've gathered more patience.
Bender: trick for removing the pommel: yes, thx, there maybe is a second washer, I'll try your trick for straightening it, even with the sword upside down! Might work, even if I already tried prodding inside with a pick just in such a case might be the cause of the jamming. But, until now, even with one washer out, when I retighten the nut, everything stays tight... Blueing: Yes, I thinh I'll forget the blueing and settle for a less shiny finish...indeed, it seems they use whatever they have at hand and patch the castings flaws with whatever else...sigh. Maybe I'll get another one at one point just to be able to do the idea I had in mind for this one...
For now, I've tried to knock off the shiny finish (still work to do on guard) and did a new wrap...will see how it comes out. Then, scabbard re-wrap with suspension?
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Post by Elheru Aran on Jun 3, 2011 15:43:30 GMT
Not sure how reliable this is but Tinker himself has stated that the current generation of H/T's, at least, doesn't have stainless fittings on any swords.
That said, I think it's highly obvious that the fittings are NOT homogenous steel of one type or another, and it's possible reflingar did get an older sword with stainless fittings.
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