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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2010 12:07:21 GMT
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Post by Dave Kelly on Nov 14, 2010 12:30:47 GMT
Both of these are excellent starter cutters. The Tinker is a bit stiffer and heavier. But it has extra grip (9 vs 7 inches).
ATs are a bit faster and lighter in the blade.
Hanwei is dumping stock in a scary sort of way right now. SO the Tinker is an outrageous bargain. Also see where KOA is backordered. Hard to beat their prices, but if you're interested in th AT you might go to the Valiant Armoury site and check in to the forum. You get a 10% discount on list price if you sign up to theirs forum.
g'luck
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Nov 14, 2010 17:09:39 GMT
I agree with Dave, the H/T is a great deal right now but the AT is a really nice sword too. it all depends on what you are looking for in a sword. if you are only concerned with cutting things informally and you want a good fast sword that will cut bottles and mats and stuff easily with no extra work from you then the VA is the better pick.
if you want to do traditional German or Italian longsword work, or if you want a stiffer sword, and if you don't mind doing some work on the edge to bring the sharpness up to par, or if you simply MUST have a long grip then the H/T is the better buy
please understand that in both cases these are production line swords and sometimes lemons slip through. you could get a lemon with either sword and if you do, STOP! do not mess with the sword until you contact the vendor you bought it from. nearly all good vendors like KOA will accept returns if you are unsatisfied with the sword, but if you do anything to it, if you cut with or work on it then they will not take the exchange. I only mention this because there has recently been a couple lemons pop up and the owner did not follow these rules and got stuck (maybe) with a bad sword. don't let that happen to you.
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Post by Cold Napalm on Nov 14, 2010 18:56:13 GMT
Okay unless you know what your preference in sword is (which is unlikely as your new to this) either are great first swords. The VA generally has a good edge from the get go, the H/T line is almost a sure thing that your gonna have to touch up the edge. Or you can get this...not a hand and half...but it if from a very skilled bladesmith. www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=21421 |
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Nov 14, 2010 19:42:53 GMT
wow, that is coming out of left field. yup Ben Potters stuff looks great and he is a well respected smith, I think anything he makes will be very good, but it is nothing at all like what the OP seems interested in. surely there must be something else in a longsword, bastard sword we can recommend. does Windlass have any decent longs or bastards available at the moment? I suppose there's always Legacy Arms (Gen2) and Darksword though they both have their individual issues and I personally prefer H/T and VA over everything else in the price range some people love the big burly heavy swords and for those people nothing is better than a DSA or Gen2. all depends on what you are looking for.
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Post by Cold Napalm on Nov 14, 2010 19:59:27 GMT
That's just a sample tho...he is taking commison for similar type of items for $200-500 range so even if the cutlass may not be his cup of tea, it maybe worth a shot to see what Ben can do that does fit his tastes for $200. I am currently talking with Ben about getting a 300 dollar longsword.
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Post by LittleJP on Nov 14, 2010 22:16:28 GMT
@op
If you pick up the VA longsword and do not like it, I'm willing to do a trade for my H/T longsword, already sharpened.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 7:54:06 GMT
Well...I'm looking for some nice starting sword and i like straight europian swords because i live in middle of eu  i was more thinking about atrim longsword cause iprefer cutting power over the thrust |
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Post by LittleJP on Nov 15, 2010 18:56:01 GMT
You should look at the Tinker war sword then. The Type XIII is more suited for the cut.
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Nov 16, 2010 12:06:05 GMT
The Great Sword Of War by Hanwei/Tinker is certainly, by all reports, a more than capable heavy cutter. if you don't mind doing a little edge work it might be the better sword for heavy cutting, though the 304 is likely more agile. I'd have to handle a GSOW to know for sure.
Cold Napalm, a $300 custom longsword sounds fabulous. I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out. honestly, when I saw Ben's thread on MyArmoury I went and looked at his web site and saw what looked like all "age of sail and pirates" stuff and figured he wouldn't be interested in doing medieval. it is good to know he is willing to do one. so I guess that makes your post not only NOT out of left field but also a DAMN GOOD suggestion. the plainest and barest-boned custom by a smith like Ben Potter should most likely be superior to any production sword. good news for us, but man it speaks volumes about how tough things are in the sword industry these days.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2010 12:25:06 GMT
Thinking about that tinker Lsword. I have to ask will that sword hold ? i mean for that price ....i dont want broken sword after first testing  |
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Post by LittleJP on Nov 16, 2010 13:15:09 GMT
I've hit my cutting stand numerous times by accident, it's a very sturdy piece of metal.
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Nov 16, 2010 18:52:41 GMT
I agree, no worries about Hanwei/Tinker swords being flimsy even the bastard sword which is probably the lightest and weakest was plenty tough. the EMSHS I have is a real bar-room brawler I have every confidence that it is a superbly tough sword. I don't see any of this line being flimsy but you shouldn't go chopping trees or bricks or steel beams with it. hitting your stand on accident should be no problem though. the stresses of bad cuts from a newbie should be within its ability to tolerate with no difficulty
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2010 17:03:13 GMT
My H/T Longsword has bit into my cutting stand it's share of times thanks to my horrible technique. It takes quite a beating. I think you'd be well pleased with one.
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Post by Federico on Nov 18, 2010 15:19:27 GMT
I'll go against the current on this one. The HT longsword proved to be a dissappointment in my case. I got to handle both the blunt and sharp versions in my fencing class. It handles really nicely, but the pommel tends to unscrew itself all the time and the handle of the one we got for class is pretty much falling apart, after only 2 months of use. Also, the sharpened version was a horrible cutter (we had a cutting session with it, cutting pumpkins). We all had to overpower our cuts, and you'll definitely need to touch up the edge. It does thrust pretty nicely, but you must be careful with your technique, or it might get stuck in the target because of its flex...
...with that being said, given the current special at KOA, I'd definitely snatch it up. It could be much much better with a couple of simple tweaks.
Btw, what's your budget?
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Nov 18, 2010 16:20:12 GMT
well that's the first time I've heard this sword called too flexible. how is the pommel unscrewing? do you mean the hex nut is coming loose? the pommel should not turn at all as it should fit to the tang and get snugged down by the hex nut. a little blue loc-tite will fix that problem easily.
how was it sticking in the targets due to flex? forgive me for my ignorance, I don't do a lot of thrusting and I'm just not getting how this happens. what targets? pumkins? more info please.
yes the edges on these can be pretty terrible and the longsword is one of the most notorious about that. to think it wasn't cutting pumpkins well though seems really odd, pumpkins are really easy to cut.
thanks for the input it can be good to hear about a sword at its worst. if you have more info I'd be interested in hearing it. also do you have a sword that you would suggest?
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Post by LittleJP on Nov 18, 2010 16:38:59 GMT
It is a flexible sword, compared to some of my Windlass pieces. It's never been a downside for me however.
It's possible he meant that the pommel is twisting, which happens sometimes if the hex nut comes loose during a session.
I'm not sure why he's having difficulty with cutting, while I am not the best cutter myself, and it doesn't exactly go through targets as well as curved swords, the longsword has no difficulty if I align the edge properly.
With improper alignment, I usually tend to have to hit the bottle harder than what feels natural though.
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Nov 18, 2010 17:33:12 GMT
a lot of that has to do with the edge though, the edges on some of the H/T stuff is just miserable. especially for bottle cutting. you actually need a sharper edge to cut bottles than flesh or tatami in my opinion. it's the pumpkin thing that really throws me, pumkins are way easy. well I suppose if they were young fresh pumpkins and not rotting jacko-lanterns like I always cut then I bet they'd be a lot firmer. could still be that damn edge giving him fits. makes sense.
I'm just wondering if he got an unusually thin one or if his flexibilty complaint is just a preference thing or if I really misunderstand how flexible these swords are.
I have a VA 304 and I'm lead to understand it is a lot more flexible than the H/T longsword and I don't have trouble thrusting with my 304 and I don't feel it is overly flexible.
as far as Windlasses go those things are sometimes overbuilt and sometimes built like a saw blade and sometimes just right, so comparing to Windlass in general really dosn't say much
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Post by LittleJP on Nov 18, 2010 18:12:59 GMT
Well, I have one of my paper cutting Appleseed edges to put on mine, I guess it is biasing my opinion in favour.
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Post by Federico on Nov 18, 2010 22:28:46 GMT
Hey Tom, I don't find it TOO flexible, but it has some flex. It's just that the shape of the tip really enables the blade to go very deeply inside the target, so you have to make sure you retrieve it in the same angle that you stabbed, or else the flex bends the blade, and it gets stuck (at least in pumpkins). It took me a couple of thrusts to get used to it. As for the pumpkins, we were told to pick pumpkins about the size of 2 heads, that were solid and fresh, in order to help us learn how it feels to go through a flesh like target. Most of the time, I managed to get halfway without overpowering the cut. Overpowering didn't help me though, as it would just get stuck. I thought it was me and my technique, but we all seemed to be struggling (especially the physically weaker students, some could only dent the pumpkins) except for the teacher who was able to add more power to his cuts without suffering. I also tried the same cuts on the same pumpkins with this sword I got some time ago www.museumreplicas.com/p-218-eur ... sword.aspx , and it was really easy, yet I don't think it's a superior sword. Chances are the HT was badly blunt, as its owner had recently bought the bare blade. The pommel does turn (not only the nut), not only during the cutting session but also before, when we used it with the blunt blade for steel on steel sparring. We have to keep an allen key around to torque it back. As for the handle, it's litteraly falling apart. Like I said, with a couple of small mods (loctite on nut, good glue on the handle and proper sharpening), it would be much much better. What do I recommend? I don't know really, I can't say that I'm a super expert, but I think we should ask more details to the OP about his level of experience, budget and what he's looking for in a sword. Right now, despite all those faults, the KoA price is litteraly a steal, and I'd go for it. However, once the price goes back to normal, maybe something a tad beefier and more forgiving as a first sword? Other than the Valiant practical, I'm really curious about CS's Italian longsword. p.s.: I'll try to upload some vids of the cutting session and put them up here, so I can show you what I'm talking about. Only of me though! |
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i was more thinking about atrim longsword cause iprefer cutting power over the thrust
