Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2007 21:16:13 GMT
It looks like Myarmoury has finally taken the plunge and gotten some reviews of a couple Gen2 swords... needless to say they don't hold them in as high regard as we do.
Out of curiosity: What is all your response to that? Particularly Clyde.
To me it just says that when reviewing a sword it's almost more the reviewer than the sword itself as to what the verdict is.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Mar 8, 2007 21:31:25 GMT
I thought they were too critical... Of course they're going to function poorly - if all you've handled are swords above the $600 mark . Obviously they can stand for some major improvements but there is no other company that has the durability of gen2 while still having at least a vaguely historical look at that low price. Also, myarmoury only tested handling and fit/finish. This means that structural integrety was not at all tested - and that's where gen2 shines. A pretty sword that breaks s no better than an ugly sword that brakes - they are both broken! Durability is of paramont importance. Then comes looks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2007 23:49:29 GMT
Fit/Finish: That's the thing though... I know that Gen2's are not necessarily the most elegant looking weapons in the world, but how elegant did the majority of historical examples look? I'm sure there were far more swords in the medieval/renaissance era that were uglier than the shining and tediously perfected models like what Albion or Arms and Armor pumps out.
The same can be said for handling characteristics. Did all historical examples handle as well as Albions? I think most Albions handle better than most historical swords. The amount of attention to detail in all aspects of the sword-making process given to Albion swords was probably pretty rare among the actual historical smiths and guilds who had to produce thousands of swords for the knights and soldiers etc. Even with modern manufacturing technology, how long is the wait for a SINGLE albion sword? Weeks? It's ridiculous to assume that historical swords were all so perfected as Albions in any sense.
I think some people should lighten up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2007 23:51:06 GMT
These are reviews done by a guy who's had the chance to handle the best of the best (Albion, A&A, etc.). In that context, I don't think the G2s fared too poorly, and I'm glad to see them getting some "air time" over at myArmoury. Personally, I would give the 12th C. sword a more positive review, but then again, I don't have the extensive background with higher end swords that Mr. Grandy does, so that's not shocking news. ;D I agree with Bill that the fittings are chunky and the grip a bit on the portly side, but, then, I'm also not looking for museum quality historical accuracy either. I also agree with Bill's overall assessment that these swords are super durable beaters that do a good job of giving the overall appearance of Medieval swords, even if some of the details are wrong. And with Clyde modifying the details continually, this aspect should become less noticeable in future generations. For example, the grip on future 12th C. swords will have a more substantial taper from cross to pommel. It still won't appease some folks' historical sense, but it will give the sword a better appearance and should improve two-handed use. Basically, at the end of the day, I'm looking for decent steel with a good heat treat, a reasonable resemblance to historical pieces, decent handling (within the context of backyard cutting), and all at a reasonable cost. For me, G2 delivers all these things, and, with a few relativley minor tweaks, the faults pointed out in those reviews could be fixed, making the deal all the sweeter.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Mar 8, 2007 23:58:04 GMT
actually adam, the wait is "supposed" to be about 3 weeks. When I ordered, it was during an important movie and they were heavily backordered and needed time. I was more than happy to wait 16 weeks.
Still I agree with you. Who's to say that it isn't historical? Swords made today are modelled on only the creme de la creme of remaining examples.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2007 0:50:16 GMT
My thoughts are that if you are going to depend on a sword with your life, it has to be durrable above all other things. I think that Rammestein is correct where he states that most surviving orginals are court swords that never saw and were never intended for combat. The other side of that is that other sword original that were found where very much corroded and near imposible to determine their original properites.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Mar 9, 2007 2:56:21 GMT
Tsafa, they are either court swords or (paralleling djg's comment's) the most supurb swords that would have been so well made they aren't used for combat. Though it "would" be interesting to have a carbon dating saple done of the black prince sword to see if any blood is on the sword. That would mean one of two things: The sword was used for battle...or...The prince had a hissy fit and slaughtered 7 water boys in a fit of syphillis induced frenetic beserk fury Personally, I'm going with the second option
|
|
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2,088
|
Post by admin on Mar 9, 2007 3:13:32 GMT
I thought that overall the reviews were basically fair, especially the Lucerne. The pics they took were certainly nice - and did both swords justice. Definitely good to see Gen2 getting some 'airtime' over there.
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Mar 9, 2007 3:22:46 GMT
now that I think about it, my reaction comes of as pretty negative.
I am elated that myarmoury has dedicated time to lower end swords like gen2. But I think that it should be stressed that, at this buy, you can not go wrong durability wise. I didn't see much press going to gen2's GOOD features like this. Hell if tsafa wrote this review, he'd actually work first hand in proving just "how" durable a gen2 really was. And don't let paul have a go with gen2's and steel tubing (reminiscent of the "test to destruction" ;D)
|
|
|
Post by ShooterMike on Mar 9, 2007 3:26:56 GMT
I thought that overall the reviews were basically fair, especially the Lucerne. The pics they took were certainly nice - and did both swords justice. Definitely good to see Gen2 getting some 'airtime' over there. I'd have to agree. I read those earlier this week and found myself nodding in agreement, though more forgivingly, with most of what Bill Grandy said. That said, if the things driving the negative comments about the hilt are corrected, like making the guard smaller in diameter, making the grip taper a bit (which has been discussed numerous times here) and making the pommel a bit bigger and maybe somewhat thicker to move the POB to about 4 to 4.5 inches, I will HAVE to buy another one. As far as the length of the grip goes, it's OK with me for a hand-and-a-half sword. Or it could be an inch longer. But no more than that. It's a good thing that those are all simple changes that will likely just take a little time and communication to make happen.
|
|
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2,088
|
Post by admin on Mar 9, 2007 3:35:13 GMT
It's a good thing that those are all simple changes that will likely just take a little time and communication to make happen. That pretty much hits the nail on the head. If someone like Bill Grandy only has relatively minor issues - and comments on how the swords handling was actually pretty nice - it certainly helps to give these swords some of the credibility they deserve. And perhaps even get them into the hands of some of the folk that only knew them from years ago when they were 'sharpened crowbars' to change that old tired comparison... No one can call them THAT anymore!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2007 3:35:45 GMT
That would mean noe of two things: The sword was used for battle...or...The prince had a hissy fit and slaughtered 7 water boys in a fit of syphillis induced frenetic beserk fury Personally, I'm going with the second option The second option sounds much more likely to me too... ;D
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Mar 9, 2007 3:38:59 GMT
well that's what he gets for raping those poor innocent french bar maids during the one hundred years war. Thousands of english archers ploughed the field before him...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2007 3:52:29 GMT
well that's what he gets for raping those poor innocent french bar maids during the one hundred years war. Thousands of english archers ploughed the field before him... A disturbing thought. True, but disturbing. BTW, as Paul mentioned, the pictures accompanying those two reviews are phenomenal. Gorgeous photos have almost always been a hallmark of myArmoury reviews, and those taken of the Lucerne and 12th C. are no exception. Not only are they nicely done, they are also taken from angles not usually seen. I want a Lucerne even more after seeing those.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2007 4:12:45 GMT
In all honesty guys, if I were of the financial means to be able to collect multiple thousand dollar swords, and then was handed say, a Hanwei PPK, I'd very likely be completely unimpressed.
I think they were pretty fair in their review actually, given the higher end swords that they normally handle.
That said, I'm still delighted with my $300.00 swords, and for use and durability I'd be more than willing to put them up against the best out there. As my knowledge and collection grows this attitude may change, but I doubt it.
-John
|
|
|
Post by ShooterMike on Mar 9, 2007 4:16:37 GMT
Well said, Red.
|
|
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2,088
|
Post by admin on Mar 9, 2007 4:43:25 GMT
The problem I had with the reviews is, this line of Gen2 swords best feature is their durability (in my opinion and probably in the manufacturers opinion - maybe Clyde will respond to this), yet was almost completely ignored. Maybe this type of testing is not important in the reviewers opinion? Since this is a major consideration in the swords design I feel to neglect this is not giving the reader a complete impression of the the sword. It would be the same as reviewing a higher end sword, where fit and finish, and historical accuracy were the main considerations in its design and then only test its cutting ability. The reviews in my opinion are incomplete, but well done in other aspects. djg Very true. This is indeed one of Generation 2's greatest strength - swords that are extremely tough, yet handle well (which is one reason why - in my opinion - Generation 2 swords are very well named. A new, modern, Generation of swords that are actually stronger than the originals). That is indeed a factor they seemed to omit... And I've even heard of cases where Albions, despite being excellent swords, have had a few problems in this area from time to time...
|
|
|
Post by rammstein on Mar 9, 2007 4:43:48 GMT
The problem I had with the reviews is, this line of Gen2 swords best feature is their durability (in my opinion and probably in the manufacturers opinion - maybe Clyde will respond to this), yet was almost completely ignored. That's what I was trying to get at. The best thing that gen2 had going for it...was not in the review. (posted at the same time as Paul above ;D)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2007 4:51:11 GMT
You're right DJG, but perhaps it is because our attitude towards our swords is different. We actually use our swords to cut with, sometimes to cut items that others would cringe at even thinking about. How many owners of a Bugei sword take it out in the back yard and slice and dice on soda bottles and cardboard boxes? We, on the other hand have no qualms about putting our blades to work in some pretty nasty, sometimes .45 Caliber ways. Perhaps we view our swords as tools, very nice, shiny and sharp tools, but tools that are built for a specific function, and one that we are willing to have become nicked and scratched as they go through life fulfilling their design function. I've several times read where someone has just purchased a nice, higher end sword, and when queried on how it cuts reply; "I don't know, it's too nice to use." I mean, how often is someone going to spend $1000.00+ on a sword and then beat the holy hell out of it just to see if it'll break?
Wow, sorry, less coffee in the evening I think.
-John
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2007 5:04:02 GMT
Well, he did mention that they're a good choice for a tough sword that cuts well, but you're all right, durability could have been stressed a bit more. I took a little flak for referring to my G2 products as "tanks", when in reality (as I explained) this was intended as a compliment in reference to their durability and solidity of construction, rather than a comment on handling, etc. They certainly are TOUGH!
|
|