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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2010 4:11:02 GMT
Ever since they announced the production of this sword, I've been excited. I love tactical swords, and this one is no exception. It looks REALLY well made. It has a true, full tang construction, has kraton handle scales, and a fiberglass scabbard. It all seems awesome to me. Has anyone bought one yet? And also, what's this about "plasma coating"? Kult of Athena lists in its product information that they are plasma coated. They look completely normal with nothing applied to the blade, so I assume this coating is clear, but what exactly is it?
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 2, 2010 4:38:13 GMT
I have no clue about the plasma coating, but I recall Matt of the Midwest has one and posted a first look review of it when he got it. Said it felt somewhat blade heavy. Personally, I'm of a mixed opinion of it. I kinda like it because I think it looks cool, but I would have preferred it in a single handed version, like a real wakizashi, rather than ko-katana.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2010 19:03:42 GMT
Odd that it would feel blade heavy, considering KoA lists its point of balance at 2 1/2". And yes, the handle is fairly long, but I actually like that in this case. It also helps to balance the blade, as I'm sure you know. With as little distal taper as it has, this seems to be a must. Also, considering the tactical purpose of this sword, I think the longer handle is better. It's not overly long, but it gives you better control over the blade, as well as longer reach if you hold it farther down the handle. I personally think its design is near perfect. My only issue is the guard. I think it should have been just a little bigger.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 2, 2010 20:24:13 GMT
Well, Matt also said it could be due to his unfamiliarity with swords in general, so it may balance out nicely for someone more experienced; I don't know, but that seems likely.
I wasn't disputing that a longer hilt is more useful given its purpose, it's just a pet peeve of mine when people mislabel things, like Cold Steel's now discontinued 'willow leaf' Chinese sword that was actually an 'ox tail.' Considering its intended purpose, I think the length of the hilt is about perfect, I just don't really like that it's called a wakizashi; to me, the ideal length of a wakizashi's hilt is 4.5-6.5", whereas a ko-katana's hilt should be 8-10" long. But that's just my little pet peeve.
As for the guard, I agree, but I think the reason they did that is for flat carry so that the guard isn't sticking you in the back if it's lodged between some gear. The other reasoning is probably that, in an age where blade on blade combat is non-existent, the guard really only exists to prevent your hand from slipping forward onto the blade which, if the handle is properly made and your grip is sufficiently strong, is really a non-issue to me; I've used bokken without their guards in a dozen sparring sessions and I never had a problem with slippage, no matter how wet the wood got.
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Post by MattoftheMidwest on Oct 2, 2010 21:58:20 GMT
I briefly made a thread involving the sword on this forum but determined it was pointless and deleted it. In retrospect it was probably a silly decision, but I digress.
As far as my previous description of it, I may have to rescind the "blade-heavy" label now. I've been dry-handling it quite a bit over the last few days, and it's actually quite nicely balanced, as its stats would suggest. I suppose I just needed to get used to its feel. I do maintain that the thing has next to no distal taper, but I really don't think that's much of a problem considering its short blade.
The plasma coating, or at least what I assume is the plasma coating, is actually slightly visible as a kind of glossy sheen when the blade is held up to a bright light. In any case, I can't detect any kind of rust or corrosion after about a week and a half of possession and a bit of touching the blade (especially the mune). The construction is rock-solid and shows no detectable looseness. Of course you can't disassemble it, but that's to be expected for a sword like this. The guard, while indeed quite tiny, does prevent my hands from sliding up on to the blade very well. Overall, I'd say this is a great sword for the price and would recommend it to anybody considering it as a cheap, tough backyard cutter.
Edit: By my own measurements the handle is roughly 9.5 inches (24 cm) long, which I believe is on the shorter end of the spectrum for daito tsuka. The sword really is a joy to handle with two hands, even indoors, and the bo-hi produces a nice tachikaze when one's edge alignment is correct.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2010 3:41:36 GMT
Ah, I understand. Despite the mislabeling, it doesn't bother me. We know what it really is, right? Speaking of which, I've also heard this kind of sword can also be called a kodachi, which makes sense to me.
As for this "Willow Leaf" sword from Cold Steel, I've never heard of it. When was it discontinued?
And yes, I understand why the guard is the way it is. I'm not saying I'd prefer a full-size tsuba. I'm just saying something just slightly longer and wider would be nice. Maybe even make the "tsuba" taper towards either end.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2010 3:45:43 GMT
Ah, thanks for the info! It's good to hear you're getting used to it. What were you used to using before, though, if I may ask?
And you say the plasma coating is clear? I figured, seeing as it looks normal. I'm still curious about the technical information behind it, though. It's good to hear that it's solid too, but how is it that you can't disassemble it? It looks like you can. Is it glued or epoxied?
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 3, 2010 4:33:20 GMT
That it can. Personally, I prefer the term kodachi, because ko-katana is a modern term, whereas kodachi was the predecessor to the wakizashi and was often of the dimensions commonly attributed to ko-katana. Let's see... (is checking past CS catalogs). It was in production as recently as 2007, so I'm going to say it was discontinued with the introduction of their 2008 line. Below is an image of both their 'willow leaf' and their, at least appropriately named, 'bagua': And below is an image of an actual willow leaf, or liuyedao: Kind of an important difference, if you ask me. It would depend on how big you were thinking, I'd suppose. If I'm not mistaken, the average tsuba is 3" in diameter and that on the TacWak looks about 1.5-2" long in the pictures on KoA, so you couldn't really get much bigger without going the whole hog.
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Post by MattoftheMidwest on Oct 3, 2010 4:54:26 GMT
The Tactical Wakizashi is my first sword. I'm looking to hopefully start practicing iaido sometime soon so that I can gain more confidence in using a sword of any kind.
Yeah, the coating seems to be clear and is difficult to detect unless held up to a light, as I previously mentioned. The handle (I hesitate to call it a tsuka since it's hardly traditional) is permanently assembled like that of a common kitchen knife, with the two pieces of kraton firmly attached to the tang. Although I'm no expert the guard appears to be very solidly epoxied to the rest of the handle, as I can't get any movement out of it at all. The habaki, in turn, is likely epoxied to the guard, since it's also immovable.
One minor quibble: the lanyard at the end of the handle is annoying as hell while dry handling, so I removed and only plan on putting it back on for long-term storage or perhaps a makeshift peace tie.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2010 18:12:01 GMT
Alright, I figured. I like the term "kodachi" more, as well. Really? I must have just missed it then. Both of those look very nice, and so does the actual "willow leaf". Too bad they were discontinued. Ah, well, I was thinking along the lines of about 1/2" longer, and maybe just 1/4" wider. Ah, well it seems to be a good choice for a first sword. Are you only interested in Japanese-styled swords, or do you have any others in mind? Hmm...as for the handle, that's slightly disappointing, but at least it's sturdy. I personally like being able to take my swords apart if they're not expensive. And yes, it is about as far from traditional as you can get. However, I suppose you could also call it a "modernized tsuka". Oh, and I suppose it would be annoying. I've never really liked lanyards, but they can help sometimes.
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Post by mikeS on Oct 4, 2010 19:35:25 GMT
he OP i was just reading through this as ive been thinkin of gettng a nice tactical knife or something and these did catch my eye as a good knife could easily equal or exceed this things msrp. but my response is a little more on the end of the plasma coating...
the what: a microscopic layer similiar to anodizing (as in the strength of the bond it is much stronger of a finish than paint or anodizing..)
the why: plasma coatings are often used on pistons in high perfromance (and some mid-high production motors) auto applications.. it is used because it makes ithe surface its applied to very slippery(lowers friction) verysmooth and thus helps prolong wear times and increase effiecency/performance. it woiuld do the same things to a sword blade with the added benefit (also applicable to car parts but not why they do it) of making the surface rust free and weather resistant...do to the fact that it completelly cover the metal so no exposed steel means less maintanence ...
the cons: it will after hard target use start to wear away! so keep that in consideration...cuz it aint the kind of thing you can replace and if your not careful to where its coming off at you will start to get rust and not cut as smoothly through soft targets..... hope that clears things up a bit and good luck if you get one!
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 4, 2010 21:19:51 GMT
It just rolls off the tongue so much easier, whereas with 'ko-katana', it feels like you're forcing it out of your mouth.
As did I. Although I've always loved swords, I didn't actually get introduced to the world of production swords until about 2003 or so when I found the original website now called Weapon Masters; granted, because they never listed who the manufacturer is on many of their swords, it never occurred to me to try and search them out. But anyways, the Cold Steel model is what is known as an 'ox tail' or a niuweidao. It is the most common of Chinese dao commonly associated with peasant rebellions because the sword took virtually little skill to wield effectively; the addage was 'when you're hacking off pounds of flesh at a time, it really doesn't matter where'. The Hanwei Practical Gongfu/Kung Fu Sword is a good example of this style of sword (albeit the scabbard is rather useless).
The 'willow leaf' or liuyedao, is actually what most martial artists and soldiers wielded throughout much of history. The particular one shown above is produced by Dynasty Forge, who makes two versions (one with the round fittings shown) and one with square fittings; they also produce a niuweidao that is quite attractive, all three of which are available on Kult of Athena (and two of which are on my list). As for the 'Eight Trigrams' or 'baguadao', this is actually something of an oddity as I've only ever read of it being used as a training tool in Baguazhang to improve the artist's control and strength, so I'm not quite sure how it would handle as an actual sword. Nonetheless, it's really quite attractive.
That would be appropriate, really, but would it be 1/2" longer and 1/4" wider overall or would it have those extensions on each side?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2010 21:34:52 GMT
Weapon Masters? What a coincidence, that's the site that introduced me to production swords too! It was around the same time as you, too. I was in Okinawa when I came across their site, and I remember showing it to one of my friends in class when we were using the computers. I remember some of the swords I found there, and have since learned where a few of them came from, such as Ritter Steel's reverse edged katana.
Anyway, I'll look into buying some sort of dao eventually, but right now, I'm more focused on Western style weapons. I started off with katanas, so I've been trying to branch out lately.
Oh, and I almost forgot, I meant 1/2" longer and 1/4" wider overall.
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Post by MattoftheMidwest on Oct 4, 2010 21:56:43 GMT
I'd say that my interest in other types of swords is just as great as, if not greater than, my interest in Japanese swords (though I'll always love nihonto no matter what). In fact, I'm planning to make my next sword a medieval European one.
The source of my annoyance with the lanyard was the fact that it tends to whip around and hit your hands and body while swinging the sword, and really seems to serve no purpose during normal use. I had the idea of hooking it around my arm when holding the sword in a two handed grip, thinking that it could be a decent way to avoid a flying blade accident if I lost grip of the sword, and while this makes the lanyard nice and taut it heavily restricts the range of motion of my arms. So in the end I just decided to take the thing off entirely and save it for when I put the sword in storage for long periods of time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2010 0:59:39 GMT
Ah, alright. Well, are there any particular models you're looking at, or are you still thinking? I've read some good things about many different types of swords, so I could recommend some, and I'm sure just about everyone else here would be happy to, as well.
Hmm...yeah, I figured that's what was bothering you about it. I took the lanyards off my knives for the same reason. They're just too bothersome.
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Post by MattoftheMidwest on Oct 5, 2010 20:59:27 GMT
I'm hoping to get an Angus Trim/Christian Fletcher piece for my first Euro sword right now. I've been aware of SBG for well over a year now and frequented the Western sword forums on the old site, so I have a pretty good idea of what I want. I'm always open to suggestions, though, even though it does stray from the topic of this thread.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 5, 2010 21:16:02 GMT
Huh, fancy that. I know it's a bit off topic, but what's Okinawa like, as someone who lived there? Among the places I want to visit in my lifetime, Okinawa's pretty high on my list.
Well, the main dao available, production wise, are the Hanwei Practical, the Dynasty Forge Chinese line, and a few from Kris Cutlery. Other than that, it seems most dao available are stainless or can't be trusted (like RyanSword's CAN CHOP IRON!).
That would work, though, I think you could get away with adding 1/4" to each side width wise, since it wouldn't make it all that much wider; you'd just have to be careful about what you're storing it around in case you need it in a pinch.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2010 23:12:41 GMT
Ah, alright, I wasn't sure how long you've been around. But if you're sure about what you want, then go for it! I'd love to see a review on one of them, if you're up to it.
Ah, well, I'll send you a PM about Okinawa then.
Hmm...doesn't seem to be many dao to choose from. Well, if that's the case, I'd probably have to go with Dynasty Forge. Maybe Hanwei...I'm not really sure. Oh, and yes, I've heave about RyanSwords. I almost bought one sword from them, but a friend of mine advised against it. Apparently, they have temper issues, or something like that.
Well, realistically, what are the odds we would need to get a sword out in a pinch? I mean, hey, I've got nothing against people going out at night and being a sword-wielding vigilante, but I can't think of many situations that would call for a sword.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 5, 2010 23:29:13 GMT
Much obliged.
There aren't, unfortunately. The Dynasty Forge are the most expensive, but are probably the most well made. The Kris Cutlery, despite their cheaper stuff, actually has a pretty attractive one for 400$, so it's a little expensive, but won't break the bank. The Hanwei Practical is probably a good beginner, but the scabbard, as I think I said, is pretty worthless because there's a slot running 2/3 of its length to give it that graceful slenderness, but it results in the sword practically falling out. As for RyanSwords, there were actually several swords on their site that caught my eye originally, but given their rather poor English, the stats provided were the same for every sword (no matter how illogical), and the fact that they felt the need to put in descriptive titles such as 'can cut bamboo' or 'can chop iron', I felt it was best to stay far away until SBG said otherwise, which they didn't.
I was referring more to a combat situation, like for soldiers, who tend to carry a lot of gear and would likely carry something like this on their back, in between all that gear; the guard could get caught in said gear during a crucial moment. As far as if civilians were allowed to carry these kinds of things, I don't think it'd be a problem to worry about since most people would carry it on their belt and not have to worry about any more than it getting caught in a jacket or something.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 22:39:29 GMT
No problem! ^_^
Yeah, it's a fairly narrow market, I'd say. I'd say a good half of the sword market (at least) consists of katanas or other Japanese variants. I like Dynasty Forge, and I think Kris Cutlery is ok. Personally, I'd probably cough up the extra cash for the Dynasty Forge one. And RyanSwords...yeah, when I came across them, all I could think was "lrn2English". XD Yeah...I need to get away from 4chan.
Anyway, I see...I suppose that makes sense. I don't think I've ever seen a soldier with a sword, though, which really is too bad, because I think swords need to make a comeback on the battlefield.
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