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Post by YlliwCir on Sept 9, 2010 19:10:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2010 19:55:36 GMT
Ric - I know this is just casual talk but there are too many people who really think they can cross a room in the dark to attack an intruder before they get shot. These people have either seen too many movies or played too many video games - or both. I know this bit wasn't aimed at me, but I feel a little compelled to answer it. They would actually have a better chance of getting across the room in the dark since the attacker would have to literally take a shot in the dark in an unfamiliar setting compared to someone who knows where everything is who only has to get close enough to stab. However, I also believe that any form of ranged weapon (even just throwing knives) would be preferable to a sword in home defense given that the attacker can kill you from twenty feet away. As for teaching the kids early, that's really the problem, isn't it? Too many parents these days don't give a flying freak about their kids and don't tell them anything important, so they'll do anything to gain attention and will also do things that are highly dangerous, such as playing with mommy and daddy's guns. If more parents treated their kids like actual people, sat them down, and told them what's what instead of treating them like an infantile burden that does nothing but cry and scream and we'd have fewer accidents and more children that are intelligent and actually possess common sense... But that's getting a little too far off topic. @ric: The problem with that scene, funny as it is, is it's clearly staged. If the swordsman had truly been trying to kill Indy instead of trying to intimidate him, it would have gone very differently, considering the covered gun belt Indy wears. At best, it would have been a prolonged fight in which Indy wrestled the sword away, but more than likely he would have run away until he could pull his gun out.
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Post by YlliwCir on Sept 9, 2010 19:58:54 GMT
Yeah, Vincent, I know it was staged. My point was that, all things being equal, gun always trumps sword. That and trying to add a bit of levity.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2010 20:13:24 GMT
Bleh my connection died and according to my provider it could be out the rest of the day so I'm on my phone and csn't see whst Ric posted. I have to admit I was staring at it wondering how Ric managed to post a large empty post...
Vince for the most part I agree with you but the point I'm trying to make is I'd rather not take the chance. As for kids yeah I agree completely. Funny thing is - while I would trust my 6 yr old with a gun I would not trust him with a sword.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2010 21:09:44 GMT
Yeah, Vincent, I know it was staged. My point was that, all things being equal, gun always trumps sword. That and trying to add a bit of levity. I wouldn't say always. As with so many things, it depends on the situation and the setting, but yes, it usually does. Not that I'm really happy to admit it since, like so many of us here, I prefer swords over guns. sam: I understand and I wasn't trying to shoot your point down, just interjecting. Frankly, I happen to agree and think anyone who decides to defend their home with a sword has been watching too many movies and played too many video games. I'm not saying it couldn't work, but it's just all too likely that an invader would be carrying a gun, so it's just not prudent anymore; swords have become something to decorate our walls with. Well, I can actually see the reasoning behind it. With a gun, it's simple: point and shoot. With a sword, there's more movement involved and there's every chance an inexperienced person could cut themselves to ribbons, especially if they tried any of the fancy, showy moves you see in anything out of Hollywood.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2010 21:14:32 GMT
This post wasn't intended to be completely serious, just a hypothetical situation kind of thing. Anyways I live in the UK, if someone breaks into my house and I hurt the intruder in any way, they can sue me for assault!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2010 1:13:55 GMT
just my opine~don't take it too seriously. I think "home protection" is a major iffy. I definitely would not want to accidently kill some poor drifter who just wanted to steal a can of beans and some clothes. Better safe than sorry some might say, but unless I heard shots fired, I would never respond with lethal force. I would prefer to tase the intruder from a distance. If I miss, it's the hefty Louisville slugger rather than my collection of swords. (non lethal) Remember the John Hopkins student with the samurai sword? articles.cnn.com/2009-09-15/justice/samurai.sword.killing_1_student-burglar-police-spokesman-anthony-guglielmi?_s=PM:CRIMEI do not consider the gladius the greatest of weapons ( I do have the g2 pompeii - i love it!) since it was used in conjunction with a scutum and some body armor and what not. The deadliest sword would be the samurai's with a very light blade and the fact that u can use both hands for more force. If you do need a ranged wep but cannot justify a gun in your house, crossbows are still just as deadly with 150 lbs of draw or more with really fast reload times. (they pierce even hardened steel armor easily) I'm not from the south but how bout rock salt in the cartridges of the 12 gauge? Forgive the long rant...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2010 1:56:49 GMT
just my opine~don't take it too seriously. I think "home protection" is a major iffy. I definitely would not want to accidently kill some poor drifter who just wanted to steal a can of beans and some clothes. Better safe than sorry some might say, but unless I heard shots fired, I would never respond with lethal force. I would prefer to tase the intruder from a distance. If I miss, it's the hefty Louisville slugger rather than my collection of swords. (non lethal) Remember the John Hopkins student with the samurai sword? articles.cnn.com/2009-09-15/justice/samurai.sword.killing_1_student-burglar-police-spokesman-anthony-guglielmi?_s=PM:CRIMEI do not consider the gladius the greatest of weapons ( I do have the g2 pompeii - i love it!) since it was used in conjunction with a scutum and some body armor and what not. The deadliest sword would be the samurai's with a very light blade and the fact that u can use both hands for more force. If you do need a ranged wep but cannot justify a gun in your house, crossbows are still just as deadly with 150 lbs of draw or more with really fast reload times. (they pierce even hardened steel armor easily) I'm not from the south but how bout rock salt in the cartridges of the 12 gauge? Forgive the long rant... ] 1. Breaking and entering is a crime. If you bresk into my home I will be concerned for the safety of my family. Your intentions and the lengths you will take to achieve them are unclear to me and thus I must assume you mean the worse. As such I do not have the luxury of worrying about a drifter's life as he may be a grave danger to my family. Break into my house and if you don't leave peacefully when I confront you and it will not be an accidental shooting. 2. Tasers are a one or two shot deal. No good against multiple intruders/attackers. Besides tasing is only temporary the can get up afterwards and still pose a threat. 3. Katana are not much lighter than a European equivalent like a saber or longsword. 4. Crossbows can be just as lethal as a gun and can cost much more than a basic handgun, rifle or shotgun. If you can't justify a gun in your house how can you justify a crossbow? Oh and see what I said about tasers and limited shooting capacity. I'd like to see you reloaf a 150lb crossbow quickly while you are being either shot at or rushed by badguys. Besides do you always wear a quiver to bed? 5. Rock salt in a shotgun is a waste of time. It will only piss off a really determined attacker or a drugged up intruder at even close distances and at farther distances is rendered ineffective due to low mass and non aerodynamic shape - and the salt can cause corrosion in your chamber and barrel. Stick with birdshot - I prefer #4 shot.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2010 3:44:52 GMT
Hmm. I disagree since I believe in stealth. Likewise, I am taught to attack first for the initial element of surprise is a major advantage so I would not take the luxury to even ID a trespasser. Anyone should be familiar with all the blind spots in your house. (I have the 8 camera system and alarm security stuff which can be accessed wirelessly with a pw) Standing still behind a wall corner in the dark, waiting to ambush is my idea of what is optimal since a confrontation against someone who may be armed is arguably more perilous. I think Dave and some others have such a thing in mind to be able to get in close enough to use the gladius. This is why i said use a taser or a baseball bat. I personally would not recommend confrontation -it gives them room to think. They can size you up. They can run away, pull out a gun and come back or even go bring in their lookout // come back with an armed crew. The closest situation was my next door neighbor to the right got asked by a young girl to use the bathroom. Yea he has a gun, but also a wife and two young children. He saw 5 guys packed into a car waiting outside and refused. She then went over to the house on my left (skipped my house, I am a big dude) where an elderly couple lived. They let her in but I watched carefully just in case. It looked very highly suspect to me and seemed like the young woman was scouting the houses to look for valuables. On a side note, I clocked the cops response time recently (25 mins lapd) ugh 35 mins for paramedics with my sister getting an dangerous allergic reaction// grandpops heart attack. Crouching around a corner in the dark with a gun, then pouring the whole clip into a person is ideal. However, deadly force is not appropriate in all situations. I would hate to be recorded by my own cameras hiding behind a corner and...well you know the rest. Unfortunately in Cali we can get prosecuted for killing a trespasser -especially one unarmed. Breaking and entering is a crime but this does not make you immune to being charged with murder afterwards. As with the previous example, prosecutors decided not to bring charges against the student because A) the criminal just got out of prison and B) he aggressively approached the students. 150 lb Crossbow on kult is $99. I see most around 150-200 dollars. Sexy handguns cost 350 up. I consider crossbows to be safer by your logic. Also cali is 18 for bows, rifles, shotguns, 21 for handguns. Children have a harder time figuring out how to string 1, load, etc. A handgun where nieces, nephews, etc. can reach give me a shudder. I think all kids nowadays grow up learning how to fire a gun with first person shooter games. I could keep the bow unstrung on the nightstand without worrying too much. I disagree with the sword argument even if I am an Euro sword guy. Most katana seem to be a little over or under 2 lbs. 2 handed sabers and longswords weigh in at 3.5-4 or more. I can never recover as fast from the momentum of a swing. Just as the gladius, falcata, machete is faster than a katana, the katana is faster than our large euro swords. Therefore I suggested the katana which is longer, though a bit slower, yet can apply more force coming from a 2 hander. I do like #2. I did not think of multiple assailants. 1 on 1 don't all of us like to think we would win? Handgun, semis, clearly the best. I don't have any experience with the salt etc. I always figured the regular shotgun shells with pellets that I use for clay pigeons still would really vaporize a person in a house setting. Was it small coins? that would knock a person on their behind... I don't mind bantering with you I think it is really relevant to consider the risks and our responses to such an emergency situation. edit: didn't address the taser issue. Break /dislocate their limbs. They won't die after the initial takedown nor from broken bones. (i.e. the bat) also you don't have to worry about tying them up// cuffing em.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2010 4:57:34 GMT
I have a red-oak boken (minus the plastic tsuba) laying by my side of the bed. I live in Canada so if an intruder bursts through the door and he's armed with a knife, stick, bat or salmon, my using a gun to defend myself would land me in jail anyway. Plus, the chances of my kid killing himself with the boken are relatively slim. That's why I'm grateful to live in Texas; someone invades my home, I can tear him up with an uzi if I want and the law can't say a damn thing about it because it's my home and I'm justified to use any means to protect it. On a side note, much as I hate sounding like an ass, you wouldn't have to worry about your kid shooting himself if you taught him proper respect for the weapon instead of keeping it locked away where it'll seem like a forbidden fruit; the proverbial cookie in the cookie jar after being told no, as it were. good point about trained in respect of firearms. i had my first 410 shot gun when i was 7y/o. it sat in my closet, and was always loaded. there was never a problem with some of my buddies messing with it, nor i.... not do to the fear of the weapon... rather fear of what my father would do with that big leather belt....LOL. as for texas.. the castle law has many loop holes that will still land you in prison, even in your own home. i would highly recommend reading the pdf file from the state website. if you have provoked someone and then the invade your home you are not excluded by this law. you can still face prison time. that is just one example. in the self defense class i teach, we study the castle law. i also keep copy on my laptop, and issue copy to students on flash drive. even if you dont have a weapon, the potential to still fatally harm the opponent always exists.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2010 5:42:26 GMT
I really hope that I am not being overly sexist in saying that a large percentage of women do not allow guns in their households. At least this is the case that only one person in my extended family has guns. The rest of the men are trumped by the wife laying down the law. I can only hope to persuade my future wifey that a bow is a strung up stick As for late night solicitors past 11 i keep 1 hand with steel brass knuckles in my pocket. (relatively nonlethal?) Carrying a gun / knive to answer the doorbell is serious overkill. I hate visualizing a scenario like in "law-abiding citizen", like a man's worst nightmare.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2010 11:58:38 GMT
Rice - i don't want to hijack this thread more than I already have. If you'd like to continue this discussion please make a new thread in either the cafe or general sections.
I apologize to the OP for hijacking this thread as I did. Regarding gladii - I can appreciate its design and function but I've never liked them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2010 13:18:37 GMT
That's why I'm grateful to live in Texas; someone invades my home, I can tear him up with an uzi if I want and the law can't say a damn thing about it because it's my home and I'm justified to use any means to protect it. On a side note, much as I hate sounding like an ass, you wouldn't have to worry about your kid shooting himself if you taught him proper respect for the weapon instead of keeping it locked away where it'll seem like a forbidden fruit; the proverbial cookie in the cookie jar after being told no, as it were. good point about trained in respect of firearms. i had my first 410 shot gun when i was 7y/o. it sat in my closet, and was always loaded. there was never a problem with some of my buddies messing with it, nor i.... not do to the fear of the weapon... rather fear of what my father would do with that big leather belt....LOL. as for texas.. the castle law has many loop holes that will still land you in prison, even in your own home. i would highly recommend reading the pdf file from the state website. if you have provoked someone and then the invade your home you are not excluded by this law. you can still face prison time. that is just one example. in the self defense class i teach, we study the castle law. i also keep copy on my laptop, and issue copy to students on flash drive. even if you dont have a weapon, the potential to still fatally harm the opponent always exists. That's a good point. However, since I think it's safe to assume 98% of people wouldn't provoke a person with the intention of them breaking into their house so they could kill them, it's more or less just something you need to know in case you do harm to the person (without killing them) and they try to sue you for it. Also, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't Texas' Castle Law include provisions for places like your car/vehicle or even just out on the street?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2010 13:26:52 GMT
I really hope that I am not being overly sexist in saying that a large percentage of women do not allow guns in their households. At least this is the case that only one person in my extended family has guns. The rest of the men are trumped by the wife laying down the law. I can only hope to persuade my future wifey that a bow is a strung up stick As for late night solicitors past 11 i keep 1 hand with steel brass knuckles in my pocket. (relatively nonlethal?) Carrying a gun / knive to answer the doorbell is serious overkill. I hate visualizing a scenario like in "law-abiding citizen", like a man's worst nightmare. Rice, it's not exactly sexist if it's true. Most women I know refuse to even contemplate have a gun in their house. The only real exceptions are my current girlfriend who, while not liking them over much, recognizes the near necessity of having one in a home defense situation (much like myself), and then my grandmother who has a case full of assorted guns and keeps a Walther PPK in her car's glove compartment. Your statement would only be sexist if you'd said they didn't allow guns because they were women, rather than just that they didn't allow them; at least, I think that's how it goes. As for late night visitors, I think a peep hole in the door combined with a taser (the type you hold against the person as opposed to shooting at them) would be the best, since a gun or knife would indeed be overkill, yet I think a pair of brass knuckles is a little on the low side since you would need to draw back and then punch in a relatively confined space if you had to use them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2010 14:35:16 GMT
yea what sam said, i apologize for going majorly off-topic. Answering the original query: a g2 pompeii gladius; non-historic but gives you a slightly longer blade / fulcrum for a heavier slash; more of a wedge taper for thrusting; (referenced in ricwilly's photos in "Roman Swords" a few down) edit: wow vincent, your grandma is packing some serious heat. Reminds me to respect my elders. Made my day
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2010 3:42:57 GMT
There is a thread on here where one member hacked his own calf in half (Half Calf Tom is his handle ;D) with a gladius. Short, fast and sharp. I'd say it would fit an in house role. I like the Kris version but don't actually have one.... yet. I live in Canada so if an intruder bursts through the door and he's armed with a knife, stick, bat or salmon, Someone invades my house with salmon and I'll toss a grizzly bear at his ass. I really hope that I am not being overly sexist in saying that a large percentage of women do not allow guns in their households. Fortunately mine likes guns. Otherwise she'd be married to another man. Sorry but......... Bwahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahaha!.... sorry. I find men who aren't in charge of their homes sorta funny.... Dude! No! You mentioned LAPD... if you are in LA or anywhere else in Cali, DON'T ever and I mean never let anyone see nor should you ever use those knuckles. Serious felony time there. I was ribbing you before about the guys and their wives but I'm deadly serious now. Using anything like a set of knuckles, batons, sap gloves or fist loads etc is an instant felony and for some reason the LA county DA has long hard wood for that kind of thing. Find another equalizer and fast. The only bone I have to pick with a katana in home is the blade length. 6' tall man using a sword of that length with with an 8" ceiling is looking to get hung up. Maybe a shorter Japanese blade? Or a gladius? Also, a 150 lb crossbow will send a bolt through your invader, through the wall and through a car door. We're talking mega over penetration and you'd NEVER explain that to a jury.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2010 3:53:36 GMT
vince, you are correct. i sent you a pm regarding castle law. i have it on pdf so i cannot get it up here, but will be glad to send to you email.
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Post by William Swiger on Sept 15, 2010 10:08:35 GMT
I would send my Boston Terriers first and then while the robber was laughing, I would club him to death with my lead-filled tire thumper.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2010 13:41:28 GMT
in that case... my chijuajua has a job
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Post by William Swiger on Sept 15, 2010 15:42:12 GMT
Man rule - Dog has to be bigger than a football. (Just kidding)
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