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Post by brotherbanzai on Jul 4, 2010 22:25:18 GMT
Something else to keep in mind when making the comparison between the cost of an Albion and the cost of a custom is that some custom smiths may be under priced in an attempt to keep working during a tough economy. I think most of them are busting their $emprinies and are in no way getting rich making swords.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2010 22:26:56 GMT
This has turned out to be quite the popular thread. I guess thats inevitable when it's a topic so relevant to so many sword enthusiasts. To some people an Albion sword is like the Golden Fleece or Holy Grail of swords. They are about $600 average away from what I believe most people who collect swords have to drop on a sword. To many, an Albion was already outside of their grasp/patience. To others their prices put them just at the limit of what others could spend. Now,I feel, those who wanted one before feel as if the prize has been moved farther away. We'll all need to save harder. Maybe as some have stated, a custom is a direction for others to go. Who knows? Whatever my wishings of their prices, I personally don't mind them charging $100 more because that is their business to do so. As a business it is important to meet the needs and wants of your customers, but it is equally important to satisfy your own needs while taking in a profit otherwise why are they in business? If the new prices hurt them then they will tackle that issue later. Also, personally, as I stated a few pages back, I will likely not buy a sword directly from Albion in the near future. Not because it's a snub, but because I prefer to use other means like the classifieds or the odd retailer who may have one in stock. Heck, my Albion Steward was $900 American because I bought it from K.O.A. Cheaper and no waiting period. All the best to Albion and I hope we can all save a little more money to buy an Albion if we really want it. I certainly know I could own at least four or five new Albions for the amount I have spent in the last few years.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 5, 2010 2:33:39 GMT
Something else to keep in mind when making the comparison between the cost of an Albion and the cost of a custom is that some custom smiths may be under priced in an attempt to keep working during a tough economy. I think most of them are busting their $emprinies and are in no way getting rich making swords. Oh, of that I'm quite sure! At least the ones like John, Brenno and yourself... the ones I could get a sword from at prices in the range of the Albion swords. I know you guys are not getting rich... you do it for the LOVE of the work and try to make some money as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 2:57:04 GMT
Mike, I strongly disagree with Peter Johansson's statement about other swords being "horseshit". They may not have the historical research behind them that his swords do but I would hardly call an Atrim horseshit. I hear you on that. Having read the whole article I don't believe he's referring to Angus or tinker or anyone like that. At the time it was written ('01-03? Not really sure as the ARMA site doesn't say) There were no Valiant offerings like today. I think he's referring to companies from India I won't mention. Even they're stepping up their game due to Valiant raising the bar in that price point. The mentality is one of quantity and not quality and that's what he's talking about. I've owned tinkers and atrims and they're very nice swords. They're not really historical but still every bit on par with any albion as far as performance goes. Sorry if that came off wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 3:02:01 GMT
Something else to keep in mind when making the comparison between the cost of an Albion and the cost of a custom is that some custom smiths may be under priced in an attempt to keep working during a tough economy. I think most of them are busting their $emprinies and are in no way getting rich making swords. Oh, of that I'm quite sure! At least the ones like John, Brenno and yourself... the ones I could get a sword from at prices in the range of the Albion swords. I know you guys are not getting rich... you do it for the LOVE of the work and try to make some money as well. I know it's off topic but man I really want a fable blades Ranger and Boromir.(SP) His new Glamdring is outstanding as well. The study of historical swordsmanship however takes most of my time, and my money so I'll most likely be trying to get a deposit on a couple of Albions before the price increase. That Ranger sword is MINE come Christmas though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 15:55:42 GMT
I hear you on that. Having read the whole article I don't believe he's referring to Angus or tinker or anyone like that. At the time it was written ('01-03? Not really sure as the ARMA site doesn't say) There were no Valiant offerings like today. I think he's referring to companies from India I won't mention. Even they're stepping up their game due to Valiant raising the bar in that price point. The mentality is one of quantity and not quality and that's what he's talking about. I've owned tinkers and atrims and they're very nice swords. They're not really historical but still every bit on par with any albion as far as performance goes. Sorry if that came off wrong. Thanks for clarifying that. That time frame of the quote does makes a big difference. But I do agree that one excellent item is indeed better than 4 pieces of crap.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 15:58:20 GMT
Something else to keep in mind when making the comparison between the cost of an Albion and the cost of a custom is that some custom smiths may be under priced in an attempt to keep working during a tough economy. I think most of them are busting their $emprinies and are in no way getting rich making swords. I don't think any of them were getting rich even when the economy was booming. Which is another reason I would rather go custom.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 16:38:06 GMT
This thread just comes down to people sempriniing that stuff is getting more expensive, 3/4 couldn't afford an albion before the price increase, now 7/8 can't afford them. Life is tough, and expensive. It's your money do what you want with it. It's not that I can't afford Albions after the price hike...hell they can double their price and I can still afford them. And I don't make a lot of money mind you...but the question is why? I can for 1 grand make me a custom sword that is perfectly historically accurate. Hell for 2 grand I can get one with a wrought iron core. So why would I pay for an albion? Yeah R&D costs money, so does running a large shop with people to pay...but me as a customer doesn't have JUST albion if I want a historically accurate blade...I have custom smiths...which until now has been more expensive. Now they are not...so why would I not choose a local custom smith? I can visit, feel the sword in mid process to make changes, it's awesome...if a bit time consuming...but then again it isn't exactly a boring wait either .
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 6, 2010 4:28:18 GMT
It's not that I can't afford Albions after the price hike...hell they can double their price and I can still afford them. And I don't make a lot of money mind you...but the question is why? I can for 1 grand make me a custom sword that is perfectly historically accurate. Hell for 2 grand I can get one with a wrought iron core. So why would I pay for an albion? Yeah R&D costs money, so does running a large shop with people to pay...but me as a customer doesn't have JUST albion if I want a historically accurate blade...I have custom smiths...which until now has been more expensive. Now they are not...so why would I not choose a local custom smith? I can visit, feel the sword in mid process to make changes, it's awesome...if a bit time consuming...but then again it isn't exactly a boring wait either . ^ This.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2010 13:39:26 GMT
I have one Hanvei Tinker and one VA Crusader, which were allready shown here on the forum. I love them both, I got more than I paid for with those swords. But still, few months ago I ordered my first Albion, the Ritter. I understand that they are expencive and after this price increase, I doubt, I'll be able to afford another one any time soon. However, I rather have only one sword that I really like and I'm proud of it and I know it is the closest possible to the real ones, than ten other swords, I would spent the same ammount on, but I would be only partialy satisfied with them or not satisfied at all. Do not get me wrong, I love the latest VA and Hanvei Tinker offerings, they are extremly good value for money, but if you want 100% historical accuracy, you'll have to spent a little more than 3-400$... If you do not care about historical accuracy so much, than that's OK, there are plenty of swords for you on the market. But if you want a piece that is researched as close as possible and is made like you are going to go to the Holy land with it, then you have to take a peak at all those Albions. Sure I could go custom, but I do not need a sword that is made the way I would like it to look, I want a sword that will look and feel as close as possible to the real swords.
Please excuse my english, I'm not a native english speaker.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2010 11:41:33 GMT
"Sure I could go custom, but I do not need a sword that is made the way I would like it to look, I want a sword that will look and feel as close as possible to the real swords."
That's exactly what I feel. Btw, where are you from?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2010 16:45:44 GMT
Zdravo Luka, I'm from Slovenia, your neighbour
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 10:14:30 GMT
Cheers neighbour! Congratulations on getting a Ritter, it should be a great sword.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 15:31:53 GMT
I would be willing to accept any honest explanation or even no explanation at all. As a businessman, I have raised prices plenty of times just because the demand was there and I wanted to make more money. The problem I have with Albion is that they try to explain their reason for the price increase on raising cost. That is absolutely not true and they insult our intelligence. Anyone looking at commodities indexes can clearly see that the price of materials has either stable or dropping for the last two years. The average cost is down at least 25% from where they where in 2008. Commodity prices fell 5% in July. So where is the price decrease??? Look at this chart: www.bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/futures/
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Post by enkidu on Jul 8, 2010 15:39:00 GMT
I'm so glad i made a deposit on the Maximillian ! First of all the price will go up with the increase and most of all, like the Dane, the price increased when it was released... So i'll end up paying around 1100 for a blade that will be around 1500 ( if not more ) at the time of release...
Still i agree with most here, i think they just reached the point where its not interesting anymore to get an Albion, lets go custom. Unless your an historical accuracy freak ( and even then ) thats the only option.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 8, 2010 16:14:39 GMT
The 'Max' looks like tis gonna be an awesome sword... when do you expect it to be made?
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Post by enkidu on Jul 8, 2010 16:32:53 GMT
I sincerly have no friggin idea ! Last time ( been a while ) i checked with Mike Sigman he didnt know... I should send him an email, maybe he has some update on this ! If he knows something i'll let you know. Anyhow, its not a good time for me to shell out the rest of the money ( its a bit over half-paid ) too much outcome for not so many income That will probably be my only Albion ( unless i find something in the second-hand market like a Gaddjalth, a count, a regent or a viceroy at an affordable price ), my next projects planned are all customs
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 16:44:31 GMT
I would be willing to accept any honest explanation or even no explanation at all. As a businessman, I have raised prices plenty of times just because the demand was there and I wanted to make more money. The problem I have with Albion is that they try to explain their reason for the price increase on raising cost. That is absolutely not true and they insult our intelligence. Anyone looking at commodities indexes can clearly see that the price of materials has either stable or dropping for the last two years. The average cost is down at least 25% from where they where in 2008. Commodity prices fell 5% in July. So where is the price decrease??? Look at this chart: www.bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/futures/Hey man, Well first off, the price increase is not tied to the current price of steel. Even though steel may go down on the market it doesn't mean it goes down on say 1075 or else only Albion would raise their prices and not everyone which has been the case. Also the cost of living has gone up considerably. You have to pay your employees a living wage or else you lose them. Then there the rising tax rate for small businesses, the coming health care tax, the ever rising cost of power, and it's very easy to see that steel prices are the least factor in the cost increase. Add to that the fact that research trips cost more, flying Peter out twice a year for R&D and quality control costs money, and most likely I'm leaving things out due to lack of knowledge. So really the point of this is that we can't just say steel is cheaper so the price increase is a fraud because you'd have to also say that about A&A, The Mercenaries Tailor, Christian Fletcher, Angus Trim, and a host of other American smiths that have raised prices this past year. To say that so&so raised prices while steel is down so so&so is insulting our intelligence without considering all of the factors is insulting your own intelligence in itself. Prices are going up all around but I don't see any 6 page threads for the other makers that have raised their prices for the same reasons this year. Why do you think that is?
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Post by enkidu on Jul 8, 2010 16:57:30 GMT
The 'Max' looks like tis gonna be an awesome sword... when do you expect it to be made? Got my answer ( one thing they have for them its the CS of Mike Sigman ) Peter is working on the waxes, so we can expect something around this fall.
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