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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2010 23:46:04 GMT
Albion is raising prices again... Good luck with that... Now, it may not matter to Albion, but I'll not be purchasing anything else from them in the future. They are just not worth the cost in my eyes anymore; not when I can have a custom smith create me a sword to my specifications for less coin... Your thoughts?
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Post by kidcasanova on Jun 29, 2010 23:50:36 GMT
This really puts a damper on any plans to buy an Xa or XI from them. I may still get a used Templar or Hospitaller eventually. But you're right that you could get (for example) John or Matt and Kerry to make you a fantastic blade, just as historical if you so wished, for less money.
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Avery
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Post by Avery on Jun 29, 2010 23:53:53 GMT
Seriously, again? Yeah, I agree with you. For the price of an Albion a person could get a couple of VA blades with a suspension system as well. Or, like you said, get a custom made and still have cash to go towards a nice scabbard and belt.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jun 29, 2010 23:55:31 GMT
Its a problem for me for sure... There are still several Albions on my wish list... but they have to turn up at a good deal in the used market somewhere... I won't be paying retail for them when the costs are high enough that I could get something from Odin Blades or Fable Blades made to my personal specs for as much or, in many cases, less.
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Post by sicheah on Jun 30, 2010 0:09:10 GMT
I guess I am those person who belong to "if you gotta ask, you cannot afford it ". Gone were the good old days where a couple of years ago you could get one for below $500 Personally I would prefer if Albion lowers the price of their blades and make smaller profit per unit and make it up by selling a larger quantity. I've always wanted to own a couple of their gladii and spatha but even if I had that kind of money, I would rather save a little and have it custom made with pattern welded steel. It seems to me that despite rising cost face by all manufacturers, it seems that swords are becoming cheaper due to intense competition. Well at least I can afford some of their moat item
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 0:14:49 GMT
Right now, I can get an actual 13th century knightly sword (a Type XII) from an antiquities broker in the UK for $1400 USD. This sword was carried on a medieval European battlefield and lost over seven hundred years ago. It's in good shape - the blade is somewhat straight and complete and it has the guard and pommel. An heirloom artifact with a historical background that you could probably write a book about. Who knows who carried this sword? Now, why would Albion expect me to buy a CNCed replica for that much when I can't even look at high resolution pictures of it on their website? I'm just saying... Albion makes a good sword, but they are not nearly as valuable as they are pricing them at now. I'd much rather invest in the actual antique or have Odin Blades make me something long the lines of what Marc had made for less. Their marketing people must be huffing glue or something. It's like have no perception of the condition of the economy, how much the people who collect swords are willing to spend, or what other makers are selling these days. The market has changed, there are alot better products out there. I can get this for $400 customized to my liking: custom-sword-shoppe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=247Which looks outwardly better IMHO than the Albion offering: www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/reeve-photos.htmNow, will they perform the same? No. The Albion will perform better, have excellent balance, and have a superior edge. Is the Tinker 100% historically accurate? No, the specs would not be exact for the Type X it represents - and though close, it could never compete with the Albion offering. However, even in light of these differences, will the Albion be worth twice the price? No; not in my collection. The lesser sword would serve just fine for my needs. I can refine the Tinker's edge and finish to where it performs close enough for my wallet and be totally cool with the fact I saved $400... Oh wait....soon the be around $500 difference...
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Post by sicheah on Jun 30, 2010 0:31:20 GMT
Lol, they should really get a second opinion from a different marketing group. True Albion has a good reputation as some of the best when it comes to fit and fitting and consistency in the production sword in the production sword market, but I have seen some really good companies making really good swords going out of business due to poor market research/decision.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 0:31:35 GMT
I'd like to see pictures of the 13th century knightly sword!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 0:43:52 GMT
For performance and looks, they are not in the game anymore. But for the guys who want historical accuracy above all, they are still worth the price. Even most custom smiths don't research originals as much as P. Johnsson and for some that is worth far more than extra cool look and performance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 2:46:48 GMT
I'm sure Albion will run specials in the future like they generally do once or twice a year with twenty percent off or so. But hey, what do they know? They have been in the business for years and managed to maintain their spot. I own two Albion swords and I'm happy with mine. Their customer service is top notch. Worse that can happen, they don't sell as much and they run yet another discount special. That's business for you!
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Post by kidcasanova on Jun 30, 2010 3:32:22 GMT
My thought says for such expense $ and a lot of $ at that, how much more correct in our appreciation of these battle weapons and their existence as living swords of days of old, a CNC replica no matter how finely 'machined' or better to our hearts an old veteran, no matter the scars. And perhaps no makers mark. maybe just a 'feeling'...I like that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 5:36:35 GMT
Well when I was working full time even at a relatively low wage I could of made the effort and gone for one but now I'm a student its hard to look at one and say "unlike VA Signatures that are really nicely done and with full scabbard and suspension these are just the sword".
I REALLY REALLY REALLY like Albions .......... I do .......... but my wallet can only handle so much.
Maybe I will get one of those big Maxamillian Two Handers when they get done if the company doesnt bottom out before I graduate.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 5:59:37 GMT
There is no way that they are getting their hands on my money... at least not until they run that final "going out of business" sale.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 6:27:32 GMT
Yep. I read about this announcement on MyArmoury recently. The Albion representative who issued the statement said that they were forced to implement the increase because of rising manufacturing costs and that they are "Sorry to have to do this - but we have fought it off as long as we can." Albion will honor the current price on all advance orders that are already in-place, and people can still place orders with the current pricing until August 2. Making swords to that "Albion" standard, with that amount of research and development behind them, with that level of finish and attention to detail and historical accuracy, and with all the manufacturing done in the United States ain't cheap and it never will be. It sucks that they've made the decision to up prices to stay profitable (because I have a feeling they're actually alienating more potential customer dollars and cents with the price hike than they are going to gain future dollars from it) but I can see where they are coming from. If making a top-quality product is costing more and more for the manufacturer without things changing on the income end, they've got a tough choice to make. I'm lots of cash and time away from buying my first Albion, but I'd rather see the price of an already expensive sword go up by 10% than see the company close or the quality go down. I'm glad Albion exists, I'm glad they're rooted on American soil, and yea, to some degree I'm glad they're expensive. They don't spare any expense in making the best product they can, and we can't either if we want to own one. There's something very special about those 'dream' swords requiring a lot of sweat and effort on my end before I could hope to have one, and there's something that rings true about the merit of owning one blade of superb quality over owning lots of instant gratification "stuff" to augment my collection. But nowadays there are other options for my sword dreams to be fulfilled. The industry is changing faster than Albion is. They've got to make some changes if they want to stay competitive, and I don't know if this pricing is the best one. Now, I don't think it'll kill them and I don't think it's the thing that has knocked them off of their top spot just yet, but they better look sharp. Many other options are stepping up their game, and looking more and more attractive for the high-end niche that Albion fills. I wish Albion the best and I hope they find a way to sort themselves out, just as much as I wish success for the rest of the sword-making industry. There's more than a couple sword makers who have my attention more readily than Albion at the moment. By and large, things just keep getting better and better for us sword enthusiasts, even though some things like this announcement are less-than ideal. If anything, at least this might boost the second-hand Albion market. ;D I still think I'll get my hands on an Albion at some point. ***Oh, and as for looking at good quality images, I tend to spend more of my "Albion drooling time" over at their European website than I do at the US one. Mostly because over there, instead of looking at pictures like this: ...you can look at pictures like this: www.albion-europe.com/imageroot/swords/Museum%20Line/Brescia/MUS-BRE-GRP-4.jpg?rand=174768217www.albion-europe.com/swords/swords-by-time-period/medieval/model.aspx?model=24Cheers. --Luna
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 8:21:43 GMT
For me, I have a local smith handy so albion sword's price hike makes then not so much worth it for me anymore. The exception is their museum line as those are pretty much exact replicas of an exact sword in history and almost no custom smiths can make those as accurate as albion can. So those I'll still try and save up for...after the bijillion other projects that are vying for my money ATM .
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Post by enkidu on Jun 30, 2010 14:13:07 GMT
How many of those price increase they had in the past years ? They are running a business that promotes the quality of their products, and to make it more and more believable they rise up their prices for you to think, oh wow ! Their products are really of high quality, look at the price ! Anyway, thats the feeling i have. Oh and Luna, sure the pics are better on the euro version of Albion, but look at their prices ! Maybe after the raise they'll put up some nice pics on the american site. They really make nice swords, research and everything, but we really are not their target market, they look for big money spenders, and the higher they sell, the more of those they will catch.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 0:02:57 GMT
Sometimes I get the feeling its to cut down their workload and cream profit from existing projects....... I sort of do it at our shop with confectionary. Up the price of the cheap lollies that you have to spend time counting out, putting in a bag and do virtually no profit on ....... up the price and the kids but a chocolate instead and its less work for me letting me serve other customers.......
Just my feeling, dont know if its a good move in a micro business like swords.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 0:48:52 GMT
Now, it may not matter to Albion, but I'll not be purchasing anything else from them in the future. They are just not worth the cost in my eyes anymore; not when I can have a custom smith create me a sword to my specifications for less coin... Your thoughts? You can't ask my opinion; I'm the lunatic ( er sorry Lunaman ) who bought the Vivamus. It's all about options and aesthetics. I might look elsewhere for XIIs and XVIIIs, but when Albion gets off their duffs and produces that Margraf I'll be at the door with a bag o money for one... ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 0:53:33 GMT
Kraft Mac and Cheese wanted to bolster product sales after having a slack couple of years in sales. They wanted to imprlement a plan that would get peoples attention and renew brand loyalty to their product. After having many focus groups, and after considering a long list of ideas including marketing blitz to their target market, change in packaging, product pairing and placement, they came up with a very simple idea. Their idea was to raise their prices. This would reinstate to their customer that they were the best. This worked because it is almost logical that what is more expensive is better quality and so higher prices are justified. Thier product never changed. Their packaging was never altered at this time. The only thing they did was raise the price. It worked! They saw their sales increase by a very large margin and people remembered why Kraft Mac & Cheese was better than all the other cheaper brads. I'm not saying Albion is doing this in the same way. We all know the good folks at Albion are a smaller business and needs to raise prices as the cost all of their materials rises. I know in Ontario so many of the scrap dealers and collectors are enjoying higher returns on there steel scrap. I know material cost is directly tied to gasoline prices. On their side higher prices may reinforce the elite level sword notion and bolster a few more sales. On a personal note I agree with Luna that it might be a better idea to take less profit per unit in exchange for the financial benefits of selling more units. I know that my Albion ambitions are already limited to second hand blades. This will only serve to pull the Albions I have been drooling over farther from my finger tips. If it keeps them open though, so be it. I wish them well. It was likely a very very hard decision for their managment to make and I stand behind them. I'm not likely part of their target market anyhow. I'll leave that up to VA, Hanwei, Darksword, and any other sub $500 mark. Oh sure I could save $1300-$1800, but this courier has three children a wife and a dog to house, cloth and feed.
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Jul 1, 2010 1:24:16 GMT
I would love to have an Earl.... but I'll never have one when I can have John hook me up awesome swords like my Laird for comparable prices...
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