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Post by admin on Dec 17, 2006 7:08:39 GMT
I know its a bit belated (I've been pretty much just watching the cool discussions and making sure the boards are clean and friendly ) but Conrats on the 12th Century Kreigswert! ;D She looks like a beaut, and that accompanying dagger is just plain mean looking! Personally, I don't mind the simple cross guard, though the wrap of the hilt is a little dull. I've found that generally speaking, Gen2 leather wraps are a little bland looking and might be a bit nicer with one side stiched, etc to add a little more color - but as Clyde said in an earlier post, they are constantly working on improving the aesthetics of the line and I for one really look forward to watching these swords evolve!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2006 9:42:21 GMT
that accompanying dagger is just plain mean looking! You know, the dagger is an interesting (and freaky ;D) story in and of itself. When I first saw Clyde's Imperial Weapons website (this was probably almost two years ago), I right away took a liking to the 12th C. sword. Not long after, they released the Crusader sword (which is basically the 12th C. sword with a cross ground into the pommel) and companion dagger. Since I liked the simpler look of the 12th C. sword better, I hoped that a companion dagger might also be in the works for it. One day, I shot Clyde an email asking whether there was, in fact, one in the works. I remember him saying that, unfortunately, no such dagger was being planned. Fast forward to about two weeks ago: I was browsing the Kult of Athena website, when what do I see? A companion dagger to the 12th C. sword! I had never seen one on any other site before, and, due to my email from Clyde, I never really expected to either. But...there it was, listed as being in stock, so I bought one. Just after completing my order, I went back to look at the pics of it again on the website, and it was no longer listed as In Stock, meaning that I had just bought the last one (at least the last of their current shipment). Okay, so maybe it's not a weird enough story to warrant it's own Twilight Zone episode, but it's funny how fate sometimes smiles upon us.
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Post by rammstein on Dec 17, 2006 14:50:13 GMT
I think its the fact that the hilts are not wasted at all and have small pommels that puts me a bit off. Also, as paul said, the leather is unatractive. Then, the dgger's hilt length is the same on the sword so it comes off as a bit weird.
But those are just the negatives, and I have a habit on focusing on things I don't like, rather than vice versa. On a plus side, I find the blades to excel in the beauty department and they are tantalizingly wonderful objects.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2006 21:00:15 GMT
I have to agree about the "floppy" aspect-last year I purchased the Sword of Ebelin which is an awesome sword-but the blade seems awfully flimsy for a sword of this type-but the sucker rings like a bell when struck and continues to hum for a few seconds-like a tuning fork. Mark of a well tempered blade I think.
I also own a Sword of Chaos from Windlass (both swords are from Museum Replicas) and the blade of this sword is not at all flimsy-but the handle leaves a lot to be desired. The wood shifts around under the leather over wrap which I find quite annoying- I think they ust put two little slabs of wood around the tang (I HAVE HEARD THEY ALSO USE PLASTIC-GASP!)-I have been considering cutting the leather off and doing my own grip in hardwood.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2006 23:08:06 GMT
I think its the fact that the hilts are not wasted at all and have small pommels that puts me a bit off. Also, as paul said, the leather is unatractive. Then, the dgger's hilt length is the same on the sword so it comes off as a bit weird. But those are just the negatives, and I have a habit on focusing on things I don't like, rather than vice versa. On a plus side, I find the blades to excel in the beauty department and they are tantalizingly wonderful objects. The pommels are not really too small, it's the fact that the grips have very little taper from cross to pommel that gives them a smallish appearance. The dagger hilt (cross, grip, and pommel) is proportionately smaller than the sword's, but you're right, the dagger does come across as looking more like a sword who's blade has been shortened to dagger length, though I actually really like this look, personally. I think the two changes G2 could make to better mimick historical weapons would be: a. Add a noticeable taper to both grips. b. Make the dagger's grip about 1.5" shorter. A crude photoshop of these changes: I'm extremely happy with them as is, but I can see where your criticisms are coming from, and they would certainly have more historical appeal with changes similar to what I've shown.
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admin
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Post by admin on Dec 17, 2006 23:25:53 GMT
I wasn't able to exactly put my finger on it but I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head with this observation..
A noticable taper of the hilt would make a world of difference to the swords overall appearance. Add to this a little activity on the leather wrap, such as the aforementioned stitching or something, and viola - you have much more historically accurate and better looking hilt.
Don't get me wrong, these are beautiful swords as they are - extremely keen and strong blade, excellent handling and superb assembly/fit and finish (not to mention durability) - but with these small changes, well - it could set them so far apart from the competition that they wouldn't stand a chance. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2006 0:40:50 GMT
The pics turned out looking better than I actually thought they would. Just those two minor changes make a lot of difference, and lend both pieces a more historical look. The thing is, I like the way they are now as well as the way they would look based upon the pics I made up. I think they look equally cool either way, just different. I love swords that are dead ringers for their historical counterparts, but I also love swords that get the "feel" of an historical sword without being a direct copy. Heck, I also like a well-made, functional fantasy sword (the Pro Sword Ranger and companion dagger are perfect examples). In fact, if G2 were to implement changes similar to the ones I've shown, I can honestly say that I am impressed enough with this sword/dagger combo that I would actually buy another one of each, just to have the new style in addition to the ones I have now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2006 20:16:38 GMT
Observations have been noted and the information sent to the foundry. It will take a little time for them to cycle through. Will have to sell out of what we have.
Thank you for the information. We are always in a continuous improvement mode.
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Post by rammstein on Dec 18, 2006 22:27:38 GMT
Hm, a tapering of the handle would solve the problem it seems. In fact, I think your photoshopping makes these swords look even more attractive than before.
This is just personal preference but I think a smooth wheel pommel would look absolutely amazing on this type of sword, as opposed to the octagonal one now. Just my opinion.
What are the scabbards made of? leather or wood/leather?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2006 22:52:55 GMT
Clyde, that's great to hear. It's awesome to have a swordmaker who we can directly discuss products with and who actually takes our suggestions into consideration. Thank you. Rammstein, the scabbards are leather over wood, and they fit very nicely with virtually zero rattle (none at all with the dagger, and only a little bit with the sword if it is shaken vigorously), which is another nice feature not often found in this price range. P.S. A plain wheel pommel would look good on this sword too, but the faceted pommel is historically correct. Both A&A and Darksword make their own versions of this sword and they also have the faceted pommel. There is, according to Darkwood's site, an original version in a museum in Zurich, Switzerland from which the sword was modeled.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2006 22:09:09 GMT
Tsafa, here's the entire sword in hand. Sorry for the quality, I had to take this shot in a mirror. ;D I need to get a tripod!
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Post by ShooterMike on Dec 22, 2006 5:01:14 GMT
Congrats Kriegschwert. I too have been attracted by this pair. I wasn't as lucky as you and was unfortunately out-of-sync. I bought my 12th Century Norman a year ago and then decided I had to have a matching dagger. I bought the Crusader Dagger and have not been completely happy with the mismatched pair. So I'm happy to report that a Crusader sword is on (back) order.
Looks like we'll have a pair of opposites!
Clyde, your comments are most encouraging. I will second the sentiment that it's great to have a manufacturer who encourages user input, and then really does something about it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2006 20:00:46 GMT
I just ordered this sword based on the positive reviews I found on the net. I haven't seen it yet.
But - what's all this about the hilt not being historically accurate? Does this mean my 12th Century sword doesn't look like the real sword that late-period Vikings gutted each other with?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2006 21:23:42 GMT
I just ordered this sword based on the positive reviews I found on the net. I haven't seen it yet. But - what's all this about the hilt not being historically accurate? Does this mean my 12th Century sword doesn't look like the real sword that late-period Vikings gutted each other with? Not at all. We are just refining it to be even more historically correct. Have a very Merry Christmas and a Joyous New Year!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2006 7:17:00 GMT
Not at all. We are just refining it to be even more historically correct. I'll second Clyde's statement. The hilt is very close to the original sword. There are small details that differ: the original has a rivet block (a small square of metal atop the pommel onto which the tang is peened), the G2 doesn't. Its tang is peened right on top of the pommel. Either way is historical. The G2 has steel reinforcing endcaps on the grip (due to a more cost effective method of hilt making that I'll describe in more detail if you're interested), while the original doesn't. Finally, the grip on the G2 is not tapered from cross to pommel in the way that actual sword grips of the period were. Historical grips (ones found intact, that is) are virtually always rather slim and elegant, and they get narrower as they progress toward the pommel. This is the most noticeable difference between the two, and is, in fact (I believe), one of the changes currently underway on these swords to which Clyde alluded. The thing you have to understand about us sword freaks (it happens to us all, eventually ;D) is that we can be pretty anal about minute details that would likely escape the notice of the casual observer. The details are certainly part of what makes the sword hobby so much fun, however, one has to keep in mind that exacting historical accuracy in a replica sword costs money. It takes a tremendous amount of research, time, craftsmanship, and labor and is priced accordingly. Take a look at Albion's website. Their swords are unquestionably the most historically accurate western sword replicas available anywhere at this time, and that fact is reflected in their prices. Since we're discussing swords that cost 1/3 to 1/5 (on average) the price of Albion's goods, I am willing to make certain concessions. What I ask in this price range is that the sword still be durable, still be properly balanced, and still bear at a strong resemblance to their historic counterparts. This sword offers all these things, and is being refined all the time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2006 16:02:31 GMT
A peened pommel or steel endcaps I can accept wholeheartedly - these are minor changes unlikely to be noticed by the layman. Or me, for that matter. Peening even seems like the kind of technique a medieval smithy might have used.
But the un-waisted grip is a different story - it's immediately apparent to anyone who looks at it that it doesn't look the same as other similarly-designed swords. I assumed that it was made this way because it was an adaptation of a one-handed Viking sword of the era, and accepted that at face value.
But to find out that the factory is contemplating this change - that's a major disappointment to me. I would have waited to purchase, had I known this alteration was underway.
Would it be difficult to convert my sword to the new style?
I'm sure my comments might seem ridiculous...but I really liked the idea that my sword was a replica of something they pried out of the hand of a long-dead warrior. It doesn't seem the same anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2006 21:03:10 GMT
Strat, my suggestion would be to leave the sword unopened when it arrives and make arrangements with whichever store you bought it from to return it to them and have them credit you the amount so that you can buy the modified version when it's available. You'll likely have to open the box to get the receipt in order to work out such a deal, but the sword (along with the scabbard) itself will be tightly wrapped in clear plastic. As long as you don't unwrap it, almost any retailer should take it back as new. It'll cost you return shipping, but that shouldn't be too much. If you bought it directly from Imperial Weapons, talk directly to Clyde through this forum and I'm sure he'll be willing to help you out. The only problem is that I don't know when the new style will be available. As Clyde said, they have to sell out their current stock and I have no idea how long this will take.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2006 21:16:57 GMT
Observations have been noted and the information sent to the foundry. It will take a little time for them to cycle through. Will have to sell out of what we have. Thank you for the information. We are always in a continuous improvement mode. Clyde that is a very impresivly quick turnaround bassed on custumer feedback. I am wondering how the alternation will be done. Is it just a matter of shaving the wood into a more tapered shape.... or will you have to make the tang thiner near the bottom to accomodate the thinner tapper?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2006 21:56:18 GMT
Clyde that is a very impresivly quick turnaround bassed on custumer feedback. I am wondering how the alternation will be done. Is it just a matter of shaving the wood into a more tapered shape.... or will you have to make the tang thiner near the bottom to accomodate the thinner tapper? Good question. If G2's are made in a fairly traditional way, then the tang should look something like the pic below. On something like this, you'd just have to shave the grip down. Of course, I don't know for sure what a G2 tang looks like.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2006 18:07:59 GMT
Clyde that is a very impresivly quick turnaround bassed on custumer feedback. I am wondering how the alternation will be done. Is it just a matter of shaving the wood into a more tapered shape.... or will you have to make the tang thiner near the bottom to accomodate the thinner tapper? Good question. If G2's are made in a fairly traditional way, then the tang should look something like the pic below. On something like this, you'd just have to shave the grip down. Of course, I don't know for sure what a G2 tang looks like. That is a good way of looking at it. But our tangs do not taper that much but they taper a little. It would be more of taking it off the wood handle back. We will taper some. Only about 1/2 inch. SO that means 1/4" off each side.
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