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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2008 5:29:15 GMT
New round of videos. These were taken and posted by my opponent, so the picture quality is better then on my camera. My opponent is using a buckler while I use my heater.
I am fighting Lefty (I am naturally righty).
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2008 7:53:44 GMT
Wait, in that first vid when your opponent kneels down, is he doing that on purpose? I didn't see you take the leg so I am guessing he knelt down voluntarily, he's insane! Heater versus buckler kneeling, it's no contest. I also wouldn't want to be fighting without armour on my legs, but that is me.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on May 31, 2008 23:49:05 GMT
now this is the sort of fighting I am accustomed to! I authorized sword and shield in the summer of 91. haven't been in armor for about 2.5 years now. gotta get new arms before I'll have legal armor again. I fight with a center punch round shield that's about 22-24" diameter and I use two sword, bastard, mace/shield, and pole arm. never much cared for great sword. as far as dealing with a live opponent and learning how to get past their guard and defend against their attacks there is nothing better than SCA fighting. no substitute for full speed and power reaction. where the SCA tends to fall down though is form. especially edge alignment. it can be quite hard to tell when you are off just a little due to the speed. comming in full flat isn't hard to tell tho. I have often found scuff marks just on the edges of my swords marked cutting edge, which is a lot wider and more forgiving than the real thing. I've also pointed it out to others at the end of practice. also SCA fighters tend to have poor footwork and movement. it's just too easy to stand still in that heavy armor. Tsafa here moves better than most SCA fighters I've seen. I have to say though, Tsafa that on the field I would hate you just because you use a big shield. I hate people behind big shields, it's a matter of principle from a primarily two sword/round shield fighter's point of view. unless they are between me and my enemy. ;D
what I want to see is some one cut a tatami omote with a wrap shot just to see what would happen. I think it would work fine if done right but I know there are people out there who think the wrap is an ineffective shot. I wonder.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2008 4:26:51 GMT
Wait, in that first vid when your opponent kneels down, is he doing that on purpose? I didn't see you take the leg so I am guessing he knelt down voluntarily, he's insane! Heater versus buckler kneeling, it's no contest. I also wouldn't want to be fighting without armour on my legs, but that is me. Hi Boodwraith. He didn't volunteer anything. Most of my strikes don't always go out at full speed, especially the opening one which is a setup for follow up strikes, but occasionally I do let one rip. At full speed the sword is faster then the eye. You have to watch the shoulder to see the shot. Give me the minutes and seconds into the video so I know which shot we are talking about. A lot of guys swear by their buckler. The buckler does allow for a greater range of motion and much better visibility. All weapons forms have their pros and cons. Personally I feel that if you are going to fight buckler you may as well go two-sword. You get all the benefits of range of motion and visibility plus double the offensive capability. Even if your off-hand is totally lame you can at least thrust and block with a sword. Learning to fight buckler or two-sword can be very painful. With the heater most of the shots against me are going for my head or leg which are the most heavily armored. With all other forms you are going to get hit just as much everywhere else too. You can only carry so much armor and still move so you got to just except the fact that your going to get a lot of bruises until you get very good. My opponent in the video has been fighting for a long time so I am mostly landing shots at the two opposite extremes of his body, head and legs. I was not getting any bodyshots in. Ianflaer, I don't think we have spoken directly before. Thank you for your kind words. There is a very big variance in the SCA as far as skill. Some people only do melees and other really fun stuff and never go to practice. Others, like myself, go to practice 2 times a week and focus the martial art aspect. I hope to see you with new arms and back in practice soon. I also ordered myself some new armor from head to toe. It will be professionally made this time, unlike the last two that I made myself. It will be lighter and better fitting. I should have it by the end of July. I'm going in for my first fitting this week. I almost missed this question. I did some tatami cutting recently and I did try my wrap shots. The problem with tatami is that you must cut diagonally so the you are using pressing the mat into the floor as you cut through. You can also cut diagonally up using the weight of the mat to pull the cut through. I have not seen anyone do any horizontal cuts either with true or false edge and get through a mat. The mat usually goes flying. I am sure that if you get the blade speed up high enough, at some point a horizontal cut would succeed... but that is kind of pointless because you would never overcommit to any single cut in a fight in that manor. The next time that I am cutting I will try a grasscutter (J-hook), also historically known as "Sturzhau" and "Winckerhau" in Lecküchner's Messerfechten. Since these wraps cut up diagonally with the false edge they should get through the mat if I get the angle right. My horizontal cuts and wraps did manage to get about half way through the mat as it went flying off the stand.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jun 1, 2008 5:55:13 GMT
sadly it is going to be some time before I get back in armor. probably a year or 18 months. this is partly due to my job and lack of free time. there are other considerations too but I'm not going to go into them. mostly it's my job, but that should improve next summer. so maybe by fall 2009. you are absolutely correct about the vast variences in SCA fighter skills. until about two years ago I was fighting two to three times a week and really doing well. I was on that run of twice-a-week fighting for three years before I had to move and my job started making things just impossible. I'm in the military so every 3-4 years my whole life changes. some units I have the time and opportunity to fight, others (like this one) I don't. eventually I'll get back in and maybe even make some vids.
when you say tatami need to be cut diagonally to work I assume you mean by western swords. I know I've seen video of HaiGumdo (I know I slaughtered the spelling-the Korean sword art) cut mats horizontally. now wait a second, Shooter Mike was making horizontal zwerchhau cuts on tatami in his vid in the cutting tips forum, I saw it yesterday. you must, therefore mean with a wrap it must go diagonally. hmmm well I'd like to see a video that way would be less confusing. in general I think hitting an opponent in armor will tend to be very different than slicing tatami. I mean the head is a good place to hit, but you cannot expect to chop it in half, nor would you need to in order to kill. considering this tatami cutting may not be appropriet to show if a western sword strike is an effective killing blow on an armored foe. sorry for rattling on just letting the wheels turn. . .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2008 6:28:23 GMT
You can cut mats horizontally...it just takes VERY good form to do so. I have no idea how shooter makes it look so easy...but it ain't. The mats are less likely to be flung away when cut diagonally is all as tsafa said, the forces of the cut keep the mat stuck to the ground (and so allow for messier form). Also more speed doesn't mean it'll cut mats better. Too much force and your form suffers and you will never get through a mat no matter how fast your sword is going if it doesn't hit right. Speed comes from form. Form produces speed. At no point does being faster produce good form.
As for wraps being useful...from everything I have tried...not really with actual sword (great for rattan sword though)...but tsafa and adam are meeting up with shooter in august and we can study the videos they provide us for that some more. Maybe shooter can try some wraps with some of his better cutters and see what he thinks of it maybe since if he can't do it, I don't think anyone else can in a reasonable manner.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2008 14:31:43 GMT
I just saw the vid of Mike cutting. It is the first time I am seeing horizontal cuts. Mike has a lot of experience with cutting so that is probably the main factor. The other factor I noticed is that that mats he is cutting are much taller then the one I cut, so they probably have more weight to keep them grounded. Camera was not running when I tried the wraps.
Here is the vid of my cutting. You can see the standing flying if I don't go vertical enough or if the mat is near the end and I try an undercut.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2008 18:43:19 GMT
If you see shooter's review of the ulfberht sword you can see he cuts mats horizontally just fine...one handed...even when the mats are low. Then again, that man is very talented.
/index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=2170&page=1
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2008 20:11:54 GMT
Must you cut diagonally? Must you? As in, absolutely impossible to cut otherwise?
That's silly.
Hope no one believes that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2008 1:47:38 GMT
I am sure that the mats come in different densities, quality, etc. Perhaps my mats were of a different quality, perhaps low quality, I can't say for sure. I do know that ones I cut could not be cut horizontally. It would not make sense that I can make cut after cut diagonally but not be able to do a single horizontal cut. After seeing Mike easily cut the mats I can accept that it can be done with some mats (I can admit when I'm wrong).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2008 4:42:43 GMT
Bring one of those mats to Shooter's in august. I'll pay for the extra expense whatever it is.
I'll cut it horizontally for you...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2008 5:15:38 GMT
Horizontal cuts are MUCH harder to pull off then diagnal cuts. Just because you can do the easier cut doesn't mean you can do the harder one silly. And of course just because YOU can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done. Yeah if you can bring those mats to adam and mike, I'm betting they can cut those babies up just fine horizontally for ya .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2008 6:16:57 GMT
I've cut three different brands of tatami in my life(ironically - I'm not sure of the original source of any of them[some from a teacher, others from a local store], but they were all distinct, and all intended for tameshigiri), some more often than others. None were significantly different in difficulty of cutting so as to lead me to believe that if Person A can cleanly cut Mat X, that he could NOT cut Mat Y at all.
Sorry, but in my experience, mats do not vary THAT much.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jun 3, 2008 19:25:59 GMT
I've cut a few different types of mats. The ones I have now are the full-size ones from Hanwei. They have a braided border, and are the most difficult mats to cut that I've found. The ones Tsafa was cutting looked like Mugen Dachi tatami omote as sold on www.tameshigiri.com. I've cut 40 of those (2 20-mat boxes). They are a little easier to cut than what I have now. But like Adam suggested, the differences are very minimal. What's a lot more important is having a good, sharp sword.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2008 21:18:50 GMT
Braided border? Those are the most common kind I get from my local store... it would make sense if they got 'em from Hanwei...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2008 3:09:14 GMT
I have a an armorer working on a whole new armor kit for me. The new armor will be lighter and have a better range of motion. This will probably be the last video I post fighting in this armor. It will be interesting to compare these videos with future videos in the new armor.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2008 5:42:11 GMT
Are you guys using swords or clubs mate? Seriously from what I know from re-enactment alot of the shots you guys are throwing with those rattan wasters would damage the steel blunts we are using and furthermore they would not make any sort of decent impact with a steel sword.
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Jun 19, 2008 5:48:36 GMT
Are you guys using swords or clubs mate? Seriously from what I know from re-enactment alot of the shots you guys are throwing with those rattan wasters would damage the steel blunts we are using and furthermore they would not make any sort of decent impact with a steel sword. From what I understand about SCA fighting, it is more about hitting hard then cutting.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2008 5:51:55 GMT
I have a blunts and I do sometimes spar outside the SCA with them. The shots work just fine with blunts and are plenty bruising even when hitting with much less power then I am using in this video. Blunts provide enough force concentration that I barely need to swing my arm to get a bruising hit. Are you guys using swords or clubs mate? Seriously from what I know from re-enactment alot of the shots you guys are throwing with those rattan wasters would damage the steel blunts we are using and furthermore they would not make any sort of decent impact with a steel sword. From what I understand about SCA fighting, it is more about hitting hard then cutting. That is true. We are all assumed to be in mail. You can't cut mail but you can still break bones. Gambesons only absorb so much of the impact.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2008 5:54:20 GMT
ah ok, that makes sense then, thanks razor. I haven't had anything to do with the SCA because the local chapter from what I have been told are like a bunch of psychotic children who are just there to see who can make the biggest bruises.
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