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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 23:16:19 GMT
or is it? i vaguely remember a thread a while back wherein rammstein said that katana were boring-ish. then marc retorted with a picture of a beautiful authentic nihonto. at first, i thought rammstein was out of his tree, but then i began to look around. when it comes to functional, inexpensive katana, what is the deal with the black wrap and the black saya? almost everything is black, even though nihonto were so amazingly varied. rammstein has a point, why is everything (for the most part) so dull? if it's simply a question of economics, i can dig it. but i wonder if it's not also an issue of the popular conception of a what a katana should look like. they make them that way because we want them that way. i don't know. maybe this is just rambling, but variety is the spice of life.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2007 23:46:27 GMT
I have said this time and time again,there was a huge variety of both blade styles, fittings and saya styles and colours yet the manufacturers stick with the same old black ito, white same', and black saya and a shingo zukri style blade.I think its because thats what those doing martial arts want.They dont care about the fittings as much as the blade.To me they are both important and that why I have my tsuka's rewrapped, add new fittings and paint my saya's. Hanwei seem to have bought a heap of green ito recently and some of there saya's are ribbed and different colours and they have eveb added a shobu to their blade line up so hopefully things are changing.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 0:17:56 GMT
I think it would be good if some of our Japanese sword practitioners here would demonstrate a variety of uses, strikes and fighting styles with the Katana and other oriental weapons in the JSA training thread. Kind of like what I am doing in the practice thread with western swords. Perhaps that would help people relate better to the katana.
I have always been kind of turned off by the idea that instruction should only comes from a trained sensi. That is very much the opposite of what I have experienced learning the western sword arts. I believe that the difference in this mentality stems from the fact that the oriental arts, particularly here in the USA, have evolved into a cash cow. I do not think that is the way it was meant to be.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 0:31:24 GMT
Tsafa, I think those studying JSA tend to stick in their own dojo approved forums or the swords that are approved for dojo use dont fall in the sub $300 class(I know a lot of dojo dont allow Chen Prac and prac plus ect) . Altho Chopchop studies I think. I'd love to do Iaido myself but sadly my body doesnt.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 0:39:12 GMT
Hi Ronin, anything you post will surely be for the better. Form does not have to be perfect, I think it would be fine to say for example "what I am doing here should be done in a lower squat position".
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 1:09:44 GMT
Thought I would chime in on this one, although my opinion is by no means authoritative! Having been a JSA student for a number of years, I have to say that, although there is a huge and beautiful variety of artistic diversity in traditional katana, the trend to 'subdued' koshirae is traditional in some arts as a symbol of simplicity. It's simply regarded as 'bad form' to practice/compete with an audaciously outfitted sword. Sort of a concession to the "do" mindset as opposed perhaps to the 'Jutsu' or 'koryu' one. Lets not overlook that, as stated above, the beauty may be considered as 'in the blade' as fittings were readily replaceable. Without a doubt, there are a great many sets of Japanese fittings that are unbelievable works of art in there own right but this level of embellishment is not exactly cost effective for the average person (or company) to do on a large scale. As for me personally, I like to 'dress mine up' as well. As for instruction from a Sensei, I do have to agree based on my experience. I'm not saying that this necessarily makes a 'better' swordsman, but if the line of instruction exists( ala Japanese koryu arts) why not? Wouldn't any of us study with a direct linear 'descendant' in our chosen Western 'school' of swordplay if we could? just my $0.02
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 1:13:57 GMT
Like I said, I'd love to but arthritus in hands, knees and feet stops me from doing any JSA at all. Rubbing back a saya by hand ready to paint leaves me in pain for several days after and kneeling or squatting just doesnt happen.I think Chopchop is your man for this.
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Post by rammstein on May 4, 2007 1:34:51 GMT
...I have a point?
Ok, that's a first ;D
Thank you for noticing what I said and taking it the right way. Yes the katana IS beautiful, don't get me wrong. It's just that there is far less varietion in the design than in just about any other culture I've ever seen. It's not for lack of originality though. They stuck with what worked and they didn't have to deal with the amount of armour variety that europe had. Armour and defense is what dictates sword design, not vice versa.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 1:49:50 GMT
i would say the design variations are subtle but still there. the problem seems to be that the soul of a nihonto is obviously the blade. usually the blade and fittings weren't even mounted together (shirasaya and bamboo blade). the fittings were chosen for the blade, but the blade was still the thing. so a nihonto with plain fittings is still a beautiful thing because it's the blade that one is most concerned about. in the sub $300 pool, the blades can't always be the main consideration, as the blade quality is driven by the price. so, we have less expensive, less beautiful blades and we look for variation in fittings. alas, for the most part, variation isn't there for we of meager stipend. either way, you western cats have many more, distinctly different toys to choose from than katana enthusiasts (in our $$$ range). i am jealous.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 1:51:46 GMT
ron.ausblade.com/japanese-swords-evolution.jpgThis is too big to post here or on photobucket. and here is another link. www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/styles.htmlThis one is a beauty, follow links from it and the home page, more info than you can poke a stick at There are actually heaps of variants on the japanese sword, just that we dont see them reproduced.So far I have had a Osoraku-zukuri ,and a Ryo-shinogi-zukuri tanto made for me as no one seems to do re-pros. Also remember that when we say western swords, we take in all of europe,change Japan to asia and thers a whole heap of chinese, korean,thai ect blades
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Post by rammstein on May 4, 2007 1:54:28 GMT
Just about every katana I've ever seen follows this outline:
_______________________________________ ________________KKKKKK_________________ ________________KKKKKK_________________ _________________XXXXX_________________ _________________XXXXX_________________ _________________XXXXX_________________ __________________XXXXX________________ __________________XXXXX________________ __________________XXXXX________________ __________________XXXXX________________ __________________XXXXX________________ __________________XXXXX________________ __________________XXXXX________________ __________________XXXXX________________ __________________XXXXX________________ __________________XXXXX________________ __________________OOOO________________ ________________KKKKKKKKK______________ __________________OOIOO________________ __________________OOIOO________________ __________________OOIOO________________ __________________XXOXX________________ __________________XXXOX________________ __________________XXOXX________________ __________________XXXOX________________ _________________XXXOX_________________ _________________XXOXX_________________ _________________XXXOX_________________ _________________XXOXX_________________ _________________XXXOX_________________ _________________XXOXX_________________ ________________XXOXX__________________ ________________XXXOX__________________ ________________XXOXX__________________ ________________XXXOX__________________ ________________XXOXX__________________ ________________XXXOX__________________ ________________XXOXX__________________ _______________XXOXX___________________ _______________XXXOX___________________ _______________XXOXX___________________ _______________XXXOX___________________ _______________XXOXX___________________ _______________XXXOX___________________ _______________XXOXX___________________ ______________XXOXX____________________ ______________XXXOX____________________ ______________XXOXX____________________ _____________XXOXX_____________________ _____________XXXOX_____________________ _____________XXOXX_____________________ ____________XXoXX______________________ ____________XXXoX______________________ ____________XXoXX______________________ ___________XXoXX_______________________ ___________XXXX________________________ ___________XX__________________________ _______________________________________
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 2:04:47 GMT
but Rammstein, thats why it is a katana. All sabres are generally alike or it wouldnt be a sabre.
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Post by rammstein on May 4, 2007 2:06:25 GMT
Not true. Sabres have some excentricly different variations. Compare the patton sabre to the polish Hussar sabre. If I ddin't tell you they were both sabres, you'd probably have a hard time believing it.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 2:06:49 GMT
yeah, but they're all made of different letters. it's all about the eyes you see with.
did i see a battle wrap on a standard hanwei in that catalog link you posted, ronin? battle wrap is hot.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 2:13:56 GMT
would you beleive this is a katana? 3 sided blade, ?
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 2:14:28 GMT
whoa... what the heck is that?
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 2:20:01 GMT
how about this one, flat blade with 4 hi
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 2:23:30 GMT
mmmm chunky
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2007 2:25:26 GMT
ronin, where have you been secreting this gold???
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Post by rammstein on May 4, 2007 2:34:51 GMT
Wow!
Alright, now there was some serious opium going around when the creaters made that last one!
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