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Post by hankreinhardt on Mar 12, 2007 22:21:14 GMT
I made a reply to this, then somehow messed it up...Computers are my bane...they hate old people like me. First, the most important thing about any combat sport is conditioning. Skill,knowledge, etc, all are useless without conditioning. I know. I am 73, so I gree up in the 40's and 50's, and smoked. In my mid 30"s I was running 2 miles a night wearing a 30 lb mail shirt, and then finishing off with a 100 yard spring and 100 pushups. It was quite obvious to me that smoking was not going to bother me, for I was one of the lucky ones. WRONG...I have emphysema, and if it weren't for that I would still be out sparring with friends. So I can only suggest that you who smoke weigh the consequences...you cvan let RJ Reynolds run you r life or you can quit. If you could spend 10 minutes in my body, I can guarantee you you would quit. I quit 22 years ago, should have quit 52 years ago. Enough of the preaching. You each have the right to go to hell in what every hand basket you chose....but don't complain when you get there. Weight lifting helps, strong wrists, neck, back stomach, legs, these are the main muscle groups used, and lifting helps, but it isn't the only thing. Sparring helps, but it isn't the only thing, katas can be dangerous in the sense that if you use them too mcuh, you respond automatically, and can set yourself up for a counter. My attitude is deception, and never ever let them know what you are thinking. There is one thing that it appears everyone forgets. When I was growing up I was wrestling, lifting weights, teaching Judo and fencing. The toughest guys I dealt with were plain old fashioned country farm boys. They did not have big defined muscles, even when they were very big, they just looked like a big old rawboned kid. But they were tough, strong, and would work all day and never work up a sweat. Consider what it was like for aViking farmer, who didn't have the technology that was available in the 40's and 50's. Hank
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2007 8:14:15 GMT
The most important aspect of any of the combat sports, no matter what, is conditioning, the cardio vascular. Without it, none of the other makes any difference at all. This I can testify from personal experience. When I was young I smoked, as did everyone. IN the 1960-70's when I was doing a lot of sparring, I was running two miles a night wearing a 30 pound mail shirt. I could fight all day, and all night if needed. So I knew that smoking was not bothering me. How stupid could I be. Here, here! Hank speaks the truth. I smoked for ten years and am disgusted in myself for being so sucked in "literally", besides if you smoked a pack a day and gave up but still saved the money ? Imagine the sword you could buy !!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2007 4:24:42 GMT
Weight training teaches muscles to work in isolation, builds overall tension of the muscles, and stresses joints pretty bad. It teaches the muscles to only work in the dimension the machine allows, or the one the particular exercise entails. . If you are training with free weights, doing compound movements (ones that utilize multiple muscle groups) you will not have these issues. If done correctly, you can improve your joint health. I do not recommend a weight belt unless you are attempting a new maximal record on a lift like a deadlift or squat. I would use them on the Leg Press. Constantly using a weight belt will lead to a weak core, and could make you more likely to get injured when you are out of the gym. I'll admit, I have no idea what is the best way to use weight training to improve sword fighting.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2007 4:56:11 GMT
If you want to start weight training, and have never done it before, I'd suggest starting with 3X10 (3 sets of 10 reps.) You could do something like
Monday: Squats, Leg Curls, Bench, Row
Wednesday: Stiff Leg Deadlifts, Lunges, Incline Bench with Dumbbells, Pulldown/Chinup
Friday: Squats, Leg Curls, Bench, Row
Once you can do 3 sets of 10 reps with a given weight, increase the weight. You could throw in a few sets for arms and abs if you want. Ideally, you'd have someone show you proper form on these. Be careful with personal trainers - many have no clue what they are doing.
After 2-3 months (after you get used to lifting with proper form), you'll want to switch into a program that includes lower reps. An excellent one for beginner's wanting to add strength:
Monday Squats-5x5(Do four progressively heavier sets of 5 with the 5th set being your 5RM.) Deadlifts-5x5(Do the same) Bench Press-5x5(Do the same) Incline DB Press-2x12-20
Wednesday Light Squats or Lunges-4x8 each leg Good Mornings-3x8-12 Shoulder Press-5x5 or Dips-4xmax until you get 12 each time. then add weight. Pullups-4xmax
Friday Squats-warmup to a 3 reps with 5 more lbs than you used on Monday. On the following monday use this weight for your 5th set. Bent Over Row-5x5 Incline Bench-5x5 Tricep Extensions-2x12-20
Note: For the 5X5 you will start out light and add weight each set. Your goal is to do better on your last set than you did on the previous week.
Again, this a general recommendation for someone who wants to gain strength. I'm not sure what would be best for sword fighting.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2007 5:08:04 GMT
Well, as Hank said earlier, conditioning is key. Isometrics are amazing, certain power-yoga positions and just good old fashioned wrestling build good strength. For repetitive motions, i suppose doing a combination of high-weight low reps workouts every other workout, with the workouts in between being lower weight, but much more reps. This way you build both endurance and stamina, as well as pure strength.
Although I still stand by my earlier opinions: Through exercises against your own body weight, you can achieve results just as good if not better than through synthetic machines and weights. Rock Climbing and Swimming is a good combination. Believe it or not, Ballet is one of the most physically demanding things i've ever done(when done properly that is). That and calisthenics work is great too. Using a skip-rope(a nice heavy one) or jogging(on soft terrain to save you from the shin-splints) with weights on your wrists, ankles, and a weighted belt is really good too.
One of the most difficult things I've done was a swimming exercise where they strap a rubber cord to your waist and you swim against it as far and as hard as you can as long as you can. Talk about full body workout.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2007 19:19:35 GMT
Regarding the weightbelt, the way it works is it pulls in your gut in and packs it up against your spine on the inside to support it. So it is not that back of the belt that is doing the work but the front. A belt that is 3 to 4 inches thick all the way around is good enough. Extra thickness in the back is just a marketing gimmick. I generally advise it for any exercises where you are supporting weight standing up. The idea of a weight belt is not anything new, men typically wore thick belts throughout the middle ages and they did not wear them to keep their trousers up. I don't think it will weaken your core in anyway. Keep doing abb work and deadlifts to keep you middle strong. The key to lifting heavy weight and not hurting yourself is to keep your back fully contracted and arched. You want to keep the weight as close to you center as possible. The lifting power is coming through you hips and you want the weight to be as close as possible over you hips. This picture of me may help people understand this subtle concept.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2007 19:49:50 GMT
Re: The use of a lifting belt. I don't want this to to turn into a pro vs con war, but please just let me say that in clinical circles the use of a lifting belt is highly controversial as it alters the normal pattern of muscle recruitment. Anyone who is further interested can do a search for 'abdominal belt' or 'lifting belt' on www.pubmed.com or I can try to find a few studies that reflect the diversity of research and opinion regarding their use.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2007 9:32:52 GMT
Some comments have been made regarding training with weights and I would like to very briefly mention a study that compared groups who trained the squat with those who trained knee extension and hip adduction separately. The squatting group improved in the vertical jump by 10% and the isolation group improved by 7%.
While my conclusions are different from the authors (read the full text if you can to get their results and not just their conclusions), I think what is important to take away from this study is that training your muscles in any way is likely to positively influence performance, with more specific training likely to be more beneficial.
The study was 'Weight training of the thigh muscles using closed vs. open kinetic chain exercises: a comparison of performance enhancement.' by Augustsson J, Esko A, Thomee R, Svantesson U. in J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 1998 Jan;27(1):3-8.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2007 12:14:28 GMT
Interesting stats Vyapasa. Helps quantify things. They way I see it the muscles of the body are designed to work together, primarily against gravity. Isolation extersises while a good complement to compound joint exercises, yeild much lower results on their own.
I read an interisting story in yesterdays NY DailyNews April 4, 2007, page 65 on Tiger Woods' workout. Their source is Golf Digest. It say that durring tornament weeks, he does 30 minutes cardio work and 30 minutes strength training. Durring the off-sesson he trains 3 to 4 hours a day five days a week. That is composed of 30 min cardion, 30 min streching, another 30 min cardio and the rest of the time is spent "strenth training, 6 to 8 reps with heavy weights". They list his core exercises as Squat, Bench and Shoulder Press. Next to bench they have 300 pounds in parenthasis. I am guessing that has to be a one rep max on his very best day. Whatever it is, it says a lot about his approuch to training.
The focus of the story was how times have changed in the sport of golfing and how modern training methods are producing supper golfers. It highlights the divergance of old school golfers who only practice their sport to improve it and the next generation of power golfers who use a combination of cardio work and strength training to improve their game in addition to practice. According to the story, his competitors, Davis Love, Gary Player, Vijay Singh, have all changed their training methods to include strength training with weights in order to compete with Woods on the golf course.
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Post by rammstein on Apr 5, 2007 21:50:28 GMT
hm...I can squat a clean 500 or so...that's from my bleeding school backback being carried every day and weighing around 30-40lbs...no joke Now, I think I'm going to slightly reverse my position on things, and here's why. While I find flexibility and speed more important than brute strenght (while obviously nothing tops cardio-vascular), there often comes a time in battle where you must fight, often hand to hand in the thick of combat, where your opponenet is trying to kill you and vice versa. If you can't throw him to the ground by using his weight against him (lack of room as well as many other reasons) then strength is your best bet. You'll have to wrestle someone to the ground and gralloch the bastard (pardon my scottish) using every ounce of brute force. Again, I am certainly not lowering the standings of speed and flexibility because these work your body parts in tandem with one another, but strength is certainly very important. remember, you're fighting for your life. It's not style and elegance that gets you save. If you can maim an enemy by a hard kick to the groin and a blade in his ribs...then guess who just won the fight? ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2007 23:56:08 GMT
hm...I can squat a clean 500 or so...that's from my bleeding school backback being carried every day and weighing around 30-40lbs...no joke If you develop a hunchback from carrying the weight Rammstein, They are always looking for bell ringers in Paris I hear ! ;D
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Apr 6, 2007 12:28:02 GMT
I tend to agree with Jeffm.
Belt use takes away the need for stabilising muscles to develop. Once you start using them the stronger muscles leave the stabilisers further and further behind - setting you up for bigger imbalance the stronger you get. i.e. injury.
Bravado is the bain of any weight lifter. We want to cheat that bit to feel like we're stronger than we really are. The price is we end up taking back-steps waiting for recovery. Patience is a virtue. After 18 years of training, and injury, I'm learning patience.
Seeing Tsafa with 360lbs on his back makes me cringe.
Ive read that high rep sets help rebuild cartlidge(?) that low rep set damages.
A suggestion for trainers is to use descending sets. This way you can combine training to failure with the benefits of high reps, and cardiovascular benefits as well.
I'm just trying to offer another perspective to those into their weight training. Cheers
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Post by rammstein on Apr 6, 2007 13:38:38 GMT
from what I've learned, cartlidge (again, no idea how to spell...) does not heal
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2007 16:06:50 GMT
Seeing Tsafa with 360lbs on his back makes me cringe. 365 I get that for 8 reps so that is a fairly high rep range for me. On a good day I'll hit 405 for 5 reps but I usualy stick to the 365 as my work weight. I only weigh 210, so in a malee the squats allow me to match up against a few big 300 lb plus monsters and hold them there with my sheild. Then, one of my teammates can come up from behind me and put a thrust into his face over my shoulder as I have my shield locked up against his.
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Post by rammstein on Apr 6, 2007 16:12:37 GMT
well I can do only one 500lb before I die from the strain, but I can manage 350 and sometimes more with several reps. And I am not what you'd call muscular
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Apr 6, 2007 16:34:56 GMT
Yeah, I prefer deadlifts to squats. I never go below 10 reps which is about 320lbs for me. I just prefer to have the weight down there so I can get to failure and safely bail out. Also my shoulders disagree with going back to hold a bar in squat - thanks to a motocross injury.
Regarding the belt again - these days I concentrate as much on holding my gut tight as I do on the lift. Its hard, but I have less injury.
Cheers
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2007 18:23:14 GMT
The deadlift really focuses on the back although the whole body is used. You really need to do both or at least alternate them every week. There really is no substiture for squating, deadlifting, benching, bent over rows or shoulder presses, these are core excersises for strength and power.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2007 19:02:14 GMT
You guys are ptting up some good numbers!
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Post by rammstein on Apr 6, 2007 19:06:48 GMT
I'm not sure what this debate is about...weight training has benifits, yes? So...enlighten me so I can join in ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2007 23:15:41 GMT
It has kind of taken its own course
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