Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2010 0:58:40 GMT
So really Kissaki-moroha-zukuri blades should be mounted in a more tachi style it seems. And all these modern reproductions using the more katana style mounting is incorrect. Historically speaking. I personally see that there is nothing wrong with continuing evolution of blades, adapting them with modern knowledge and know how, keeping what is right about what was done in the past while adding what is good from the present. A great movie example I feel is The Princess Blade which took the tsuka and made it into an ergonomic handle. You can sort of see it here, couldn't find a good picture of the blade itself. But back to Kissaki-moroha-zukuri and fittings. I had liked the tachi mountings but had not thought of maybe using them, now I will start thinking about it. I definately want to do some customizing when I do get my Kissaki-moroha-zukuri styled sword.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2010 6:25:45 GMT
Yes, the making of said sword is harder than the single edge katana/Tatchi, and the sword smiths would allso follow the guiding of the warriers who used them, the tatchi was for horseback, and the double edge less of a advantage, I see this blade as more a foot sword and putting it back in the scabbard mutch like a western sword, you have to look at the throat to guide the tip in, not as cool looking like the noto, even the samurai knew what looked cool, so this blade went out of use for that reason... ...................Ah, vanity, drive's the evolution of Japanese swords!! ;D ...............SanMarc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2010 8:46:26 GMT
you have to look at the throat to guide the tip in, not as cool looking like the noto, even the samurai knew what looked cool, so this blade went out of use for that reason... ...................Ah, vanity, drive's the evolution of Japanese swords!! ;D hahahaha, people are such slaves to fashion it is true. It would be sad if these blades lost favor just because they didn't look as cool resheathing. Though I would not doubt that it could be something as simple and stupid as that. While to me, I always say resheathing/closing a sword or knife is never as important as opening. You should not worry so much about putting it away with speed and style, but getting it out is deffinately important.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2010 12:14:41 GMT
LOL I feel a bit silly, I just found that SBG has an option for Kogarasu styled blade on the Entry Level Custom Katana! (2.0) Anyone have some pictures of one of these SBG Kogarasu?
|
|
|
Post by Cottontail Customs on Apr 10, 2010 15:28:47 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2010 15:55:35 GMT
Interesitng WKC is the first to have this style blade in Wakizashi that I have seen. Very cool. ;D
They have different in both Wakizashi and full sized for different prices, with high carbon or folded steel.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2010 23:45:21 GMT
I didnt know you had no Idea about the SBG one, I am looking into that one when I get the funds......Have to hook paul up with a sale one of these days!!
...........SanMarc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2010 3:10:39 GMT
I didnt know you had no Idea about the SBG one, I am looking into that one when I get the funds......Have to hook paul up with a sale one of these days!! ...........SanMarc. I had looked at Paul's custom swords back before I had decided upon getting this particular style and had forgotten to check back. Not too bad a price at $320, and definitely someone you can trust. The blade I am currently looking at is $300 including shipping, Paul isn't currently taking new orders or I might have been torn on which to get. Since I plan to get more later I will get one of his eventually. ;D I have sort of decided that I plan to get a few of these blades from different places. Start comparing them. Well at least if I still like them once I get my first one.
|
|
|
Post by sicheah on Apr 11, 2010 3:28:10 GMT
Given my conservative nature, I'll stick to Hanwei Raptor Moroha Zukuri. It is $200 plus shipping from Marc at wiwingtiswordsupply.com (one of the cheapest place ). Can't go wrong with them since the blade is designed by James Williams of Bugei. Gotta admit I don't have experience with Raptor Moroha but I used to own the Raptor Nanbokucho and what I can tell is that they get the blade geometry right and pretty solid sword. The only con is that large tsuka, mediocre polish, no hamon and you hate the over-realistic raptor koshirae. Great way for an entry blade for learning how katana should handle.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2010 4:42:27 GMT
I don't know why but I seem to prefer Hanwei for their Chinese style blades but I am not so interested in their Japanese styled blades. I can't put my finger on why and have questioned myself on this many times, since they are highly regarded for their Japanese blades. Maybe it is purely cosmetic, You do have a certain distinct style to their Japanese blades. Maybe I just don't find that appealing. What ever it is I do like their Chinese blades and have a Jian of theirs on my to buy list.
The sword I am looking at getting has some nice subtle differences in fittings than any other version I have seen out. Quite a bit of attention seems to have gone into them but not made flashy just well thought out. I will still customize whatever I get, and am working on designing my own tsuba. I will probably also add some tachi styled fittings to it. But the fittings on the one I am looking at wont need immediate fittings change like most of the ones I have seen in my price range.
Of course I could just go with the Musashi which normally sells for $199 but I have been able to find for $149, but then I would have to spend a bunch of time and effort immediately. Well nothing is writen in stone yet as to which I will get since I haven't payed for one. But as soon as my check clears in the bank and my funds available, Monday or Tuesday, then I will be putting in my order. Then the long wait for the arrival. *sighs*
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2010 6:04:25 GMT
yeeesss, the long wait, wellcome to sword aholicks Anominus......SanMarc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2010 7:00:53 GMT
yeeesss, the long wait, wellcome to sword aholicks Anominus......SanMarc. lol, yep I am used to buying in shops. But I just moved to the Seattle area and don't know the shops here yet. I generally like being in shops where you can actually feel the sword and examine it. Makes things a bit more reliable. The internet has changed things greatly though. Now with online ordering you can have access to so much more. The physical shops often don't carry much anymore since more people are shopping online. I just started looking for a blade out of general curiosity, then when I discovered the Kogarasu maru by Musashi I decided I had to get one of these great styled blades since I need to replace my tai chi blade, or at least do a lot of serious work to fix it. Funny and sort of sad story. I moved to the East Coast, and left most of my stuff with my brother in Seattle. Well my brother forgot that a VW Squareback has a trunk in the front and didn't unpack it. 3-4 years later I return and slowly find my stuff through out his house, but cant seem to find my sword. There had been a storm that dropped a branch on the car and dented the hood so I had not yet been able to open the front trunk. Finally I got it open and there was all my missing stuff, including my sword. Took me about 10 minutes to work it loose of the scabbard and the blade was quite rusty. Well out of curiosity I had to try cutting. I filled a milk jug with water, set it up, *slice* right through like warm butter. I did a few more and the blade even though looking terrible performed as well as the day I got it. This blade is quite something. It had battled mesquite trees in AZ, sat and rusted in a Northwest car trunk, and still cuts like a Ginsu. The scabbard is a ruin, and will need to be dismantled and rebuild, or I might buy a cheap $39 tai chi sword, and throw away the sword and keep the scabbard. I actually plan on putting up a post about this when I get my self motivated to take some pictures and put them up. So long story short, I find myself in need of a new blade. I have had a few katana, and actually thought I would not go back to them after discovering the wonders of tai chi blades. I practice tai chi so it does make sense the blade I favor would be from that fighting style. Upon seeing the Musashi Kogarasu maru though I knew I found a blade I wanted. I have been doing my research since narrowing down where to get the right one for me, and learning about the blade style. Thus this thread here. ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2010 2:34:42 GMT
Kissaki moroha zukuri is an interesting piece , and a lot more things are yet to be discovered about its origin and purpose. I am not an expert in Japanese sword, but there is something that tickling me about the "official" line about this kissaki moroha zukuri which in this thread refers to also kogarasu maru.
The official line always mentioned that this sword is the transition between the straight double edge ken to curvy tachi. But before that double edge ken and straight single edge chokuto or kara tachi were already there side by side. I find it makes more sense if the transition from Ken to Chokuto then to curvy tachi. Since Ken and chokuto already existed side by side, why did they bother take another detour to go to making kogarasu maru then to to curvy tachi ??
1. Ken--- chokuto --- moroha zukuri --- tachi -- Uchigatana 2. Ken and chokuto --- tachi --- Uchigatana 3. Ken and Chokuto --- moroha zukuri --- tachi--- Uchigatana
Chokuto the archaic form of sword in Japan , and either were brought from China and or some maybe made by the local smith, also has its kissaki moroha form though it is in the straight form.
Somehow I tend to believe no 2 seems to make sense, and I also tend to believe the original kogarasu maru made allegedly according to the official history by Amakuni was a class of its own. I doubted that kogarasu maru was made in relation to any transition period, it was made for unknown reason. Again this is my uninformed and uneducated opinion, feel free to enlighten me. Thank you
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2010 16:19:23 GMT
There is also an early straight tachi in kissaki moroha zukuri that existed at the same time as the chokuto, an example is the warabite tachi. Can't find a pic on the net to illustrate, but I have a couple of japanese books where they are depicted. The kogarasu maru is the curved version. The chokuto is probably a very early form from the Nara period. So my suggestion would be: Ken - Chokuto - karatchi - tachi - uchigatana (strike sword, could be different lengths) - katana Kissaki moroha zukuri tachi/ warabite / dendou tachi - kogarasu maru style tachi I have to add this is also a completely unedicated opinion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 1:14:19 GMT
There is also an early straight tachi in kissaki moroha zukuri that existed at the same time as the chokuto, an example is the warabite tachi. Can't find a pic on the net to illustrate, but I have a couple of japanese books where they are depicted. The kogarasu maru is the curved version. The chokuto is probably a very early form from the Nara period. So my suggestion would be: Ken - Chokuto - karatchi - tachi - uchigatana (strike sword, could be different lengths) - katana Kissaki moroha zukuri tachi/ warabite / dendou tachi - kogarasu maru style tachi I have to add this is also a completely unedicated opinion. Cool ;D thanks ichiban, great info!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 15:56:27 GMT
Here's a review of James Galls reproduction kazari tachi in kissaki moroha zukuri:
/index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=8395&page=1#133057
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2010 6:23:43 GMT
Yes, yes ! That's the one , it is the kara tachi or tang sword which way back then imported from China during Tang dynasty to Japan, for the nobilities there. The sword guard is still pure Kara tsuba but the later adopted by the Japanese into their Kara yo tachi with the ears of the tsuba wider and bigger holes. There is this book published by Tuttle on Japanese sword in British collection, there is one curvy tachi with the Tang style fittings, including the Japanese version of Kara Tsuba. Kazari tachi is pure blooded Tang Jian sword actually. Way back then, the Japanese thought it was very stylish to carry Tang sword then.
That's the point which I don't understand why the transition must go thru Kogarasu maru form single edge or double edge chokuto into single edge curve blade tachi? If the swordsmith in Japan already understood and discovered to make single edge straight blade to single edge curve blade, why did they bother spend time and energy to make kogarasu maru? Why not skip all together the thought of making a curve double edge tachi?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2010 17:42:32 GMT
Again I'll have to speculate a little. If you see when the transition from straight swords to curved swords in Europe started, it's with the development of cavalry. For early cavalry nations you also see almost all swords are curved. In Japan the professional cavalry was developed during and after the mongol invasion, and I think this more or less made the straight sword go distinct for other than ceremonial purposes. The kissaki moroha tachi had a function, I've often seen it referred to as a spear point or yari point. So as the armour grew heavier there was still need for a sword that could thrust through the holes in the armour, and for that purpose the moroha is better than a shinogi. I believe the curve also would help angle the sword when thrusting. But with the development of the cavalry the need for a sword with good thrusting capabilities was sacrificed for cutting power. I've heard that low quality swords from this early period was regarded as disposable, and that is perhaps why infantry swords for ashigaru are very rare. Perhaps the amount of kogarasu among these were higher than what is represented in preserved swords?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2010 3:05:35 GMT
Thanks Ichiban, that sounds plausible to me he he he... A bit of speculation does no harm.
|
|
|
Post by mythosequidae on Apr 17, 2010 3:16:48 GMT
If you are into sword winds or sounds...this geometry rules.
|
|