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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 1:23:16 GMT
I was thinking about it and i wondered why is it that machetes seem to be almost indestructible yet even some of the most expensive and well made swords we tend to baby about with? (I've seen several places on this forum where a cheap $10 machete was put through abuse that would make most blades cower and survive with naught but a scuff, as well as a few experiments of my own) I'm referring mostly to several threads I've come across where, if it came down to it (i.e. post apocalyptic, influx of zombies, post Katrina type disaster sorts of things where the price of the object would become inconsequential), they would leave their sword behind in favor of a cheap machete due to its utilitarian purposes and ruggedness. Why is it... how is it that the $1000 dollar albion and the marginally less (but equally impressive by it's own merits) atrim and other blades of similar caliber are trumped by the mere $10 dollar machete?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 1:41:38 GMT
i have had the same thought. i have a machete from a company called called imacasa from el salvador. its about a 20 dollar machete carbon steel blade and its the toughest most indestructible blade i have ever used. its spring tempered and very thin so it wont take a set which is the case with most machetes. i once tried batoning it through a piece of wood and the grain structure had my machete torqued alot inside it. when i pulled it out it went to perfectly straight again. i think that and the relatively dull blades that most machetes have make em really tough and resitent to chipping.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 1:48:44 GMT
i just wonder if it would be possible to mix the sheer indestructibility of a cheap machete with the respectable quality of say an atrim
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 2:06:10 GMT
Machetes are infused with Voodoo, and for some reason the Voodoo will not stick to swords!? ............SanMarc.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 2:28:02 GMT
Different tools for different jobs I guess. The thin, light blade of a machete makes it ideal for cutting wood, but I don't think it would do well against armor. You need a heavier blade for that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 2:40:20 GMT
that and what is considered "damage" in a sword (especially an expensive one), is different from one in a machete... if I scratch a $10 machete i won't loose sleep over it... if I scratch my $3500 Albion (not that I have it, but I heard such a thing exists), i will be very mad...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 2:42:18 GMT
Nope, metal is the bane of a machete. I've broken several by accidentally encountering pieces of metal piping, rebar, conduit tubing etc. when clearing brush around buildings. Also, If you file the edge of a machete to a shallower angle so that is takes a sharper edge it will chip more easily than most swords. Many machetes also have lousy edge retention compared to swords, but do sharpen again fairly easily.
Now, I'm a huge machete fan. My 24" Latin is my go to blade of choice, but machetes like any tools do have their limits. However, cheap and durable are generally not two words that go together well in the same sentence but that is exactly what you get with a good machete.
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Post by sicheah on Jan 23, 2010 2:57:37 GMT
Machete are made of softer steel and are much shorter/lighter than a sword. Steel even from a decently priced sword (like a spring steel DF Musha) are much more durable and hold a better edge than steel from $20 machete.
The reason we baby our swords is because they are freaking expensive. If a Japanese sword enthusiast catches you using an antique nihonto wakizashi to cut bushes and chopping wood...they will hunt you down like a convicted felon.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 3:59:49 GMT
Nope, metal is the bane of a machete. I've broken several by accidentally encountering pieces of metal piping, rebar, conduit tubing etc. when clearing brush around buildings. Also, If you file the edge of a machete to a shallower angle so that is takes a sharper edge it will chip more easily than most swords. Many machetes also have lousy edge retention compared to swords, but do sharpen again fairly easily. Now, I'm a huge machete fan. My 24" Latin is my go to blade of choice, but machetes like any tools do have their limits. However, cheap and durable are generally not two words that go together well in the same sentence but that is exactly what you get with a good machete. but is it possible to mix the sheer durability of a machete with the edge and possibly similar geometry as a sword? or is that into the realm of falchions?
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Post by randomnobody on Jan 23, 2010 4:02:19 GMT
As many have stated, different tools for different jobs. The way they're designed and the way they're used are completely different. One favors versatile utility, the other...well, armed warfare.
The biggest difference is the matter of size and mass distribution. No machetes are as big as swords, but most are proportionally wider, even thicker. Proportionally. Then comes "hilt" and "tang" construction. Steel type, heat treat, all different and intentionally so. They do different things.
You can't dig a hole well with a sword, and a sword won't be felling any trees too easily, because that's not what it's designed for. Now, an axe or machete...yeah, that's what they do, so they'll do it better.
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Insane
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Post by Insane on Jan 23, 2010 6:52:32 GMT
The biggest difference between a sword and a machete is that a sword needs to be very sharp and hold it's edge. So the edge is very hard but can chip more easy.
A machete isn't that sharp because of a different angle on the edge so the steel(or heat treatment) can be softer so it can take more abuse.
A million dollar Bugati Veyron is maybe the fastest roadcar out there. But outside the road on the dirt it's useless and can be beaten by a $1000,- 20 year old Suzuki samurai. So it's a matter of having the right tool for the job.
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Post by randomnobody on Jan 23, 2010 7:03:00 GMT
Ah, the ol' car analogy. I tried to come up with an analogy that wasn't cars...but couldn't.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 7:17:05 GMT
I disagree that no machete are sword length. I know several that are a combination of machete and sword and very tough and durable.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 7:21:59 GMT
Ah, the ol' car analogy. I tried to come up with an analogy that wasn't cars...but couldn't. We need to start an official project to find something to use for analogies besides cars. Anyway, I once chopped up a watermelon with a machete, and after passing through it and striking the table the blade was very dinged up. I later did the exact same thing with a Windlass and couldn't find a single scratch. Could be that it was just a craptastic machete though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 12:56:35 GMT
Nope, metal is the bane of a machete. I've broken several by accidentally encountering pieces of metal piping, rebar, conduit tubing etc. when clearing brush around buildings. Also, If you file the edge of a machete to a shallower angle so that is takes a sharper edge it will chip more easily than most swords. Many machetes also have lousy edge retention compared to swords, but do sharpen again fairly easily. Now, I'm a huge machete fan. My 24" Latin is my go to blade of choice, but machetes like any tools do have their limits. However, cheap and durable are generally not two words that go together well in the same sentence but that is exactly what you get with a good machete. but is it possible to mix the sheer durability of a machete with the edge and possibly similar geometry as a sword? or is that into the realm of falchions? The problem is you need more stiffness to hold and keep the shallower edge angles than the thin springy machete can provide. Once you start modifying the machete making it thicker, longer, and more sword like it becomes a sword very quickly. Messers, Falchions, and Chinese Dao are all good examples of this. I think this balance between durability and sharpness is something that has been being searched for, for a long time now, and that many sword makers will be working on for a long time to come.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 14:40:23 GMT
I disagree that no machete are sword length. I know several that are a combination of machete and sword and very tough and durable. True. I don't remember the exact term right now, but there was a kind of military machete that was longer and better designed for fighting then regular ones.
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Post by sparky on Jan 23, 2010 17:06:49 GMT
Ah, the ol' car analogy. I tried to come up with an analogy that wasn't cars...but couldn't. We need to start an official project to find something to use for analogies besides cars. How 'bout..... VHS and DVD both show movies...... one's thick and one is thin...... one is pretty tough and one is broken easily. Nah, bad idea! How about hammers..... You can drive a nail in with a finish hammer but you really don't want to frame a house with one. A framing hammer is a much better option, both can drive nails in but it's just not the same. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 18:24:29 GMT
This is a very good idea to have the best of both worlds. that is something that i would love to own.... oh... i do own one. the hanwei dadao. wonderful sword. you can see my review of it here... reviews.swords.com/hanwei-dadao-in-review/ and i have found a review of another good selection that i have been considering getting... the hanwei banshee. i appears to be much more durable even. shooter mike likes to, well, shoot things. it seems he even shot this thing and it did the timex thing and took a lickin and kept on tickin. ( i put that part in there for random... new analogy. i like the official project idea.) the review for the banshee is here... www.sword-buyers-guide.com/banshee.html and if you want the best of both worls... that is the only two i have found so far.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2010 19:03:03 GMT
The Jin-Shi Niu Wei Dao and Da Dao are also supposed to be up there in terms on overall reliability. I just can't remember where the review threads for them are. That Hanwei Banshee does look interesting though and like a nice compromise between sword and machete. At 24" of blade the Cold Steel 24" Latin machete (the longest blade machete they have) is only one inch (2.54cm) shorter than the old Hanwei Ox-tail Dao.
Some people have reported some temper problems with the tip of this blade but I have had no such issues myself. I have been able to trust into milk jugs with it as well. A couple of passes with an accusharp every so often is all it takes to keep a decent cutting edge on it.
Some of you may find it take a bit to get used to not having a hilt or nagel on the blade, but other than that it makes for a very good sword substitute. This thing is only 2mm thick and fairly flexible so it's a machete through and through, but at it's size is does adapt well to Messer or Chinese Dao techniques. Also, it might be worth noting here that CSA techniques do not rely heavily on having a hilt as Chinese blades don't have heavy or extensive hilts.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 20:58:38 GMT
Ah, the ol' car analogy. I tried to come up with an analogy that wasn't cars...but couldn't. How about this one from personal experience? Motorcycles: Dirt bikes and street bikes? having owned both, neither one works very well out of it's intended element, with the street bike handling horribly in loose sand, gravel or mud. Try to take a corner on a road with a dirt bike as fast as you could with a street bike, and you will crash
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