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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2010 4:33:36 GMT
Im a beginning backyard cutter, ive been at it for about three weeks now 1-2 hours a day just cutting bottles and pool noodles with a $60 musashi 1045.well today i guess i caught a wild hair and cut some wet rolled newspaper,first three cuts, schnick, nice. The next cut however put a nice bend in the final 6 inches of the blade.Hey have a laugh, I did, several hours later.Heres where i need your advice,I plan on getting the Musashi 1060 bamboo regardless, and ive heard nothing but great reviews,but any ideas on the blade durability in the hands of a beginner.light to medium targets in mind.Also any thoughts on another sword that would be really durable for a beginner in the $100-$200 range.I like the munetoshi $99 1065 beaters, the munetoshi yuki spring steel gumdo sword, and the munetoshi t10 matsu at swordnarmory.com. Any thoughts on or experience with any of these blades? Any others that you know would be good for a beginner in this $range?Anways thanks for taking time to read this,and any and all comments and advise would be helpful and much appreciated. Thanks.
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Post by Dan Davis on Jan 13, 2010 4:41:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2010 4:44:38 GMT
John: if you want advice about the yuki and the matsu your best option is to contact forum member MidoriKurogami, she is a great person to talk to and she works for the company, I know for a fact that she has handled the yuki and highly recommends it but not sure about the matsu.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2010 4:50:52 GMT
Have you thought about getting a through-hardened instead of a differentially hardened blade? If you don't mind too much that it's non-traditional, a TH blade should be less susceptible to taking sets. For what it's worth, you might also consider Cheness: sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/9260.htmlAccording to Paul, Mokko also seems to be a contender for toughness: sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/cheness-other.htmlI believe RoninKatana also has 1060 monotempered: sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/ronin.htmlI can't find the link for some reason o.O but Hanwei has also come out with a new line of TH blades. I would also think that the T-10 blade should be a tougher blade than the 1045, 1060, or even 1065. The Matsu sounds like a great sword for the price (and even has a turnback on the boshi <3) You should definitely compare around though, because often many different vendors have the same blade for drastically different prices and many often even go on crazy sales Edit: Here is the "Kigan" review: /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=14174 It is a bit pricier but it does seem like a nice sword
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2010 5:05:48 GMT
the yuki is probably to thin for you and could take a set easily. i would recommend the light cutter out of all the other munetoshi swords for your situation, or if you want something that can take more abuse the beater.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2010 5:06:46 GMT
I wouldn't bother with cheness, you will get more for your dollar from swordnarmoury, especially if you choose to spend a bit more.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2010 5:40:55 GMT
What is really at issue is the heat treatment here. The material - 1045, 1060, 1095, T10 really means nothing if the heat treatment is not done properly. The steel is a base potential and the real magic is in the heat treatment and geometry. That is not to say the type of steel is not important though.
Differentially hardened blades are more prone to taking a set than through hardened ones, all else being equal, because of the mix of hard and soft steel. Not only can the blade bend, but it can spiral as well because of the hard and soft areas. The fact that the blades bend means that they did not break or shatter so it is a planned compromise in the strength.
A blade that is uniformly hardened will be (can be) very spring-like and are often refereed to as "spring steel". The addition of certain elements such as silicone can enhance the steel memory. 9260, 1060, and 5160 call contain the same basic carbon to iron ratio with a mix of other elements. These are common choices for a "through hardened" blade.
The drawback of a through hardened blade is that normally the edge is softer than a typical differentially hardened blade so edge retention is traded for "springy". The TH blades are the workhorse tough blades preferred by many.
The Hanwei Raptor offers a well made geometry made for back yard cutters and it has a good though heat treatment. They are available in several styles often for under $200. Another lower priced option is the Dynasty Forge Musha.
Cheness blades can be very tough but they have many issues and quite frankly there are better options to be had. That said, my first blade, a Tenchi, is still going strong and has never bent even with mistakes that would have made other blades take a set.
I would seriously suggest looking at the Raptor line from wiwingtiswordsupply.com. Some are priced at around $180.00.
I would also avoid blades with a bo-hi if strength is a concern. They are weaker than their full bodied counterparts.
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Jan 13, 2010 6:14:39 GMT
Between $100 and $200? Cheness 1060 Mokko-- they go for $179 in the SBG sword store, and can take a serious beating. I've had mine for several years now, and I have had no problems with it.
There's also the Ronin Katana Dojo Pro budget model in the SBG sword store going for $164.99. I've heard nothing bad about Ronin Katana, so it might be worth picking up.
You can also find the Hanwei Practical and Practical XL in the sword store for $189.99, but the plastic tsuka and fake leather ito have always been a turn-off for me. If you buy that blade, consider remounting it in a better tsuka.
--Edward
P.S. Johnwalter: Reviews of many of the swords mentioned in the commentary can be found here: /index.cgi?board=reviews&action=display&thread=10166
consider reading them before making your purchase.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2010 17:53:34 GMT
imo I'd just stay away from cutting wet newspaper, this is how you really mess up swords. Stay away from cutting the wet newspaper until you have better edge alignment.
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Jan 13, 2010 18:17:33 GMT
The bamboo isn't very durable. It's a great, super-sharp, light cutter, but even a slight hit to the stand or a harder target, and it's bent. I've personally handled and cut with two of this model that got bent, and I fixed both bends so I know how easy it was to bend back. Edge alignment would be a MUST for cutting with these swords, at least in my opinion. That being said, the suggestions the others have made would likely all work for your purposes. I would shy away from Cheness; they just aren't competitive anymore. The Hanwei practical is supposed to be pretty sweet, and you can find it at Wiwingti Sword Supply for around $150. Just to be clear, it does NOT have a plastic tsuka as stated above, from my knowledge. I believe what Edward refers to is the plastic fake same. I also seem to recall that only the 'elite' geometry have fake leather ito... don't the others use cotten? HTH, Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2010 18:22:53 GMT
I have seen cotton on practicals. I have also seen "leather" on one waki, I don't know if it was elite.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Jan 13, 2010 20:23:19 GMT
yeah the Hanwei practicals are prety good as are the raptors. problem is, at your price range a lot of swords will be made with thin geometry and will tend to bend. best thing would be to keep your eyes open and search around for a bargain. Wiwingti often has just scandelously good deals. also sometimes if you tell him what you are looking for he will off you a really good discount. SOMETIMES. you owe it to yourself to look at wiwingti's site (I just got an email saying some of his prices will be going down) look here: Practical plus for $200: www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com/SH2073.htmlPractical special for $140 (one of my personal favorites, light, fast, AND tough) www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com/SH2376.html Raptor Shobu (pretty much as tough as you can get) for $200 www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com/SH2414.htmlif you want a SwordNArmory Munetoshi they have a few in your range: www.swordnarmory.com/Munetoshi-Brand-Handmade-Japanese-Samurai-Sword-s/304.htmI don't know these lower end ones but I have seen good things in the Munetoshi line. if you see something you like in the Munetoshi then talk to Midorikurogami and or Hyoujinsama here on SBG and they will help you figure out what works for you. If I was a beginner looking for a tough but good sword in your price range I would just on that Raptor Shobu at Wiwingti and be a happy guy.
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Jan 14, 2010 0:51:14 GMT
I believe what Edward refers to is the plastic fake same. I also seem to recall that only the 'elite' geometry have fake leather ito... don't the others use cotten? I double-checked that. My mistake; the samegawa is plastic, not the whole tsuka. As for the fake leather ito? The Practical, Practical Pro, Practical XL, and Practical XL Elite have fake leather ito; the higher-grade Practical Plus models have the cotton ito and real samegawa but are outside the original poster's stated price range of $100 to $200 (read: at the SBG store, the Plus Elite and the Practical Plus XL Light are going for $299.99). --Edward
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2010 18:30:19 GMT
thanks for all the advice people,its all very helpful.Slayer, might i ask how you bent the 1060 bamboo,i am still getting one,just something about it i cant quite put my finger on,maybe the real hamon,i dont know.Anyway it will be for poolnoodles and looking at,i will take the advice of the forumites,and buy a good TH workhorse.My son has the hanwei practical plus and loves it,however i think it is DH,and hes had training.I will also take a closer look at the munetoshi line and the raptor.
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