Weaponedge Swords of Napoleon's Guard
Dec 7, 2009 1:47:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2009 1:47:45 GMT
Weaponedge French 1st Empire Guards Sabers
Introduction: I have to admit that while my collecting is eclectic Western, my preferred stomping ground is 1700-1920. It was never knights in shining armor for me. It was the screeling of cornets and the peacock blaze of Murat’s cavaliers. ( Are you old enough to remember ABC’s Wide World of Sports program and the opening ? That anthem that started the show was the Napoleonic Cavalry “Salut des Couleurs” played on parade when the massed colors were trooped to the commander for presentation.)
The swords of this period can still be had in good to very good condition. ( Oh, the excellent ones are there also, but not in my income bracket….) But even a good condition period Cuirassier Sword will cost you nearly 2000.00. ( Funny, if you can find a heavy saber from the 1816-22 period you can get it for 1/3d of the cost. It’s the same sword, just not a war dated one.) At one time Deepeeka tried selling Napoleonics. They were/are pretty bad.
Now there is another India player out there calling itself Weaponedge. They have a rather small distribution base, and many of their vendors act as secretive as knights templars about their product. Hadn’t paid them much attention until I saw their repro of the rare bird 1810 Mounted Grenadier Saber. I was frantic to get one. Finally scored with a seller called Medieval Arms, a weirding operation with a British front for dealer Eberhard Bueker of Hamburg GE. When I contacted him last March he was well stocked with both Weaponedge and Deepeeka ancients. Prices weren’t bad, but I was going to have to eat the exchange rate and higher shipping costs. Did it anyway. ( I’ve shopped there three times now for items I couldn’t find anywhere else, like the Bersakovo Helmet. Eberhard has always come thru for me.) Bought three swords at once: The 1800 Guards heavy, the 1802 Guards light, and the 1810 Guards heavy.
Historical Overview: Napoleon instituted a personal cavalry escort as soon as he became General of the Pyrenees Army and launched his first Campaign in Italy. This company of Guides were the core of his Consular Guard and transitioned to the Imperial Guard in 1804. As household troops the Guard claimed the best equipment in the Army often creating fashion for the line troops to emulate. The regiments of the Guard cavalry expanded over time incorporating diverse types of units and representative foreign national commands. The core of the Old Regiments were represented by the “Heavies” , the Mounted Grenadiers and the Empresses Dragoons, and the “Lights”, most prominent the Mounted Chasseurs.
The revolutionary armies of France had had to make do with a hodge podge of royal armory stock, captured and home grown weapons. Napoleon ordered redesigns. The guides had had their own heavy sword. The 1800 heavy was still an adaptation of an older blade and hilt and was considered ill suited for point use. It was replaced beginning in 1806 with the 3d Heavy version. (Official dubbed in 1810). The Guards Light Saber introduced in 1802 was considered highly successful and served throughout the period.
Note the three swords shown here are NOT officer swords. This is the Imperial Guard after all. These are troop swords. While some officers used troop swords, most brought heirlooms or payed lavishly for prestige weapons of their choice and budget constraints.
Initial Impressions: First: “Damn they’re big. My arm hurts and I haven’t picked one up yet.” Second:
“ Oh my God. All that brass. I swear I can see it tarnishing while I’m looking at it.”
Statistic 1802 Light 1800 Hvy 1810 Hvy
Blade Length 33 37 1/4ins 38ins
Handle Length 4 1/2ins 3 1/2ins 4ins
Overall Length 39 42 1/2ins 44ins
Blade Width 1in 5/16th1.25 ins 1.25ins
Point of Balance 7 1/2ins 9ins 6.25ins
Percussion Point 22ins 23 ins 28in
Sword Weight 2lbs 8oz 3lbs 3lbs 5ozs
Scabbard Weight 2lbs 4ozs 1lb 12ozs 2lbs 4ozs
Components:
The Blade: The Light Saber is a well curved, flat backed and center ground blade. There is no back edge to speak of, even at the tip.
The type two, 1800, Heavy Cav blade is a straight sword whose design deceives you as to the actual width of the blade. It looks narrower than it is. It’s flat backed and double grooved out to a “hatchet point”.
The type three, 1810, Heavy Cav “Montmorency “ sword blade should be familiar to anyone using an American Civil War sword. These blades are flat backed with about 4 inches of back edge. They are center ground and even fullered. The foible curves gently.
The Handle: All handles are wood core, leather wrapped and wire bound. I’m not overwhelmed with the leather quality. The dye will come up too readily with cleaning.
The Guard: Many of the sabers of the period are austere. The guard of the light cav is a simple knuckle bow.
The type two heavy harkens back to older royal designs but the castings are heavier. A knuckle bow is joined to a crenelated shell plate by four sculpted arms. The shell plate bares the Army ordnance flash.
The type three heavy has a significantly larger area. The knuckle bow guard is connected by two large ribs which encase a large circle which encloses an Army ordnance flash.
The Pommel: The light saber employs an upper case plate from handle to pommel. The heavys both use the familiar French pyhrgian cap design. All three weapons are peened.
The Scabbard: All the scabbards are wood cored with brass cases. There are leather inserted ports of different designs for each weapons. The drag on the type one heavy is brass; the others are steel drags. As with the handles, leather quality isn’t very good.
Handling Characteristics: The light saber is blade heavy for percussive effect. This isn’t too bad for the weight of the weapon. It is much the same as the British 96, however the French doesn’t feel as though it tracks as well. Perhaps its just the roomier handle on the French saber.
The type two heavy is decidedly nose heavy for a thrusting sword. The shallowness of the handle accentuates this; although there is a thumb rest on the guard plate.
The type 3 is more comfortable to hold, but probably the hardest to wield. The single handed three pound weight makes for slow and deliberate movements. The offset weight of all the hilt brass gives a sense of torquing when swinging the sword
Test Cutting: These were purchased unsharpened. They can be ordered factory sharpened. The hardness of these blades has already been mentioned in the forum. Weaponedge claims that light recreational cutting should pose no problems, but steel to steel combat isn’t encouraged.
Conclusions:
Pros:
High marks for historical accuracy
Fit and finish is generally good
Economic approach to unique modern period swords
Cons:
Limited vendors and iffy supply/distribution network
Some material issues, particularly with the leather used
Maintenance: You’ll come to luv Never Dull
Questions about metal durability
The Bottom Line:
These are very good recreational and display swords for a period with few options for after market purchase. ( Chevalier D’Auvernge produces the 1802 and 1810. They “look” the same. I assume you will get a much better steel here, but they also charge 600 euros a piece for them. The amazing swordcrafter Patrick Barta of TEMPL armory CZ actually offers an 1810 for about $1850.00 )
Last time I checked E Beuker had the 1802 and 1810 in stock. He’s had a hard time getting restocked.
Rob Stanford does Australia and the US under his Stromloswords logo. If you want to go this route I can endorse Mr Stanford as an aggressive marketer who will offer you a deal you can’t refuse. ( I’m waiting the arrival of eight swords. It’s taken four months for Weaponedge to announce their shipment, and may be another month before I physically have them in hand. This isn’t unheard of for a small armory, but it wasn’t what was advertised or promised. For your consideration. I got a hell of a deal to do this, and if all goes well I’ll be more than happy to kiss Rob’s aspidistra. Stay tuned. )
Introduction: I have to admit that while my collecting is eclectic Western, my preferred stomping ground is 1700-1920. It was never knights in shining armor for me. It was the screeling of cornets and the peacock blaze of Murat’s cavaliers. ( Are you old enough to remember ABC’s Wide World of Sports program and the opening ? That anthem that started the show was the Napoleonic Cavalry “Salut des Couleurs” played on parade when the massed colors were trooped to the commander for presentation.)
The swords of this period can still be had in good to very good condition. ( Oh, the excellent ones are there also, but not in my income bracket….) But even a good condition period Cuirassier Sword will cost you nearly 2000.00. ( Funny, if you can find a heavy saber from the 1816-22 period you can get it for 1/3d of the cost. It’s the same sword, just not a war dated one.) At one time Deepeeka tried selling Napoleonics. They were/are pretty bad.
Now there is another India player out there calling itself Weaponedge. They have a rather small distribution base, and many of their vendors act as secretive as knights templars about their product. Hadn’t paid them much attention until I saw their repro of the rare bird 1810 Mounted Grenadier Saber. I was frantic to get one. Finally scored with a seller called Medieval Arms, a weirding operation with a British front for dealer Eberhard Bueker of Hamburg GE. When I contacted him last March he was well stocked with both Weaponedge and Deepeeka ancients. Prices weren’t bad, but I was going to have to eat the exchange rate and higher shipping costs. Did it anyway. ( I’ve shopped there three times now for items I couldn’t find anywhere else, like the Bersakovo Helmet. Eberhard has always come thru for me.) Bought three swords at once: The 1800 Guards heavy, the 1802 Guards light, and the 1810 Guards heavy.
Historical Overview: Napoleon instituted a personal cavalry escort as soon as he became General of the Pyrenees Army and launched his first Campaign in Italy. This company of Guides were the core of his Consular Guard and transitioned to the Imperial Guard in 1804. As household troops the Guard claimed the best equipment in the Army often creating fashion for the line troops to emulate. The regiments of the Guard cavalry expanded over time incorporating diverse types of units and representative foreign national commands. The core of the Old Regiments were represented by the “Heavies” , the Mounted Grenadiers and the Empresses Dragoons, and the “Lights”, most prominent the Mounted Chasseurs.
The revolutionary armies of France had had to make do with a hodge podge of royal armory stock, captured and home grown weapons. Napoleon ordered redesigns. The guides had had their own heavy sword. The 1800 heavy was still an adaptation of an older blade and hilt and was considered ill suited for point use. It was replaced beginning in 1806 with the 3d Heavy version. (Official dubbed in 1810). The Guards Light Saber introduced in 1802 was considered highly successful and served throughout the period.
Note the three swords shown here are NOT officer swords. This is the Imperial Guard after all. These are troop swords. While some officers used troop swords, most brought heirlooms or payed lavishly for prestige weapons of their choice and budget constraints.
Initial Impressions: First: “Damn they’re big. My arm hurts and I haven’t picked one up yet.” Second:
“ Oh my God. All that brass. I swear I can see it tarnishing while I’m looking at it.”
Statistic 1802 Light 1800 Hvy 1810 Hvy
Blade Length 33 37 1/4ins 38ins
Handle Length 4 1/2ins 3 1/2ins 4ins
Overall Length 39 42 1/2ins 44ins
Blade Width 1in 5/16th1.25 ins 1.25ins
Point of Balance 7 1/2ins 9ins 6.25ins
Percussion Point 22ins 23 ins 28in
Sword Weight 2lbs 8oz 3lbs 3lbs 5ozs
Scabbard Weight 2lbs 4ozs 1lb 12ozs 2lbs 4ozs
Components:
The Blade: The Light Saber is a well curved, flat backed and center ground blade. There is no back edge to speak of, even at the tip.
The type two, 1800, Heavy Cav blade is a straight sword whose design deceives you as to the actual width of the blade. It looks narrower than it is. It’s flat backed and double grooved out to a “hatchet point”.
The type three, 1810, Heavy Cav “Montmorency “ sword blade should be familiar to anyone using an American Civil War sword. These blades are flat backed with about 4 inches of back edge. They are center ground and even fullered. The foible curves gently.
The Handle: All handles are wood core, leather wrapped and wire bound. I’m not overwhelmed with the leather quality. The dye will come up too readily with cleaning.
The Guard: Many of the sabers of the period are austere. The guard of the light cav is a simple knuckle bow.
The type two heavy harkens back to older royal designs but the castings are heavier. A knuckle bow is joined to a crenelated shell plate by four sculpted arms. The shell plate bares the Army ordnance flash.
The type three heavy has a significantly larger area. The knuckle bow guard is connected by two large ribs which encase a large circle which encloses an Army ordnance flash.
The Pommel: The light saber employs an upper case plate from handle to pommel. The heavys both use the familiar French pyhrgian cap design. All three weapons are peened.
The Scabbard: All the scabbards are wood cored with brass cases. There are leather inserted ports of different designs for each weapons. The drag on the type one heavy is brass; the others are steel drags. As with the handles, leather quality isn’t very good.
Handling Characteristics: The light saber is blade heavy for percussive effect. This isn’t too bad for the weight of the weapon. It is much the same as the British 96, however the French doesn’t feel as though it tracks as well. Perhaps its just the roomier handle on the French saber.
The type two heavy is decidedly nose heavy for a thrusting sword. The shallowness of the handle accentuates this; although there is a thumb rest on the guard plate.
The type 3 is more comfortable to hold, but probably the hardest to wield. The single handed three pound weight makes for slow and deliberate movements. The offset weight of all the hilt brass gives a sense of torquing when swinging the sword
Test Cutting: These were purchased unsharpened. They can be ordered factory sharpened. The hardness of these blades has already been mentioned in the forum. Weaponedge claims that light recreational cutting should pose no problems, but steel to steel combat isn’t encouraged.
Conclusions:
Pros:
High marks for historical accuracy
Fit and finish is generally good
Economic approach to unique modern period swords
Cons:
Limited vendors and iffy supply/distribution network
Some material issues, particularly with the leather used
Maintenance: You’ll come to luv Never Dull
Questions about metal durability
The Bottom Line:
These are very good recreational and display swords for a period with few options for after market purchase. ( Chevalier D’Auvernge produces the 1802 and 1810. They “look” the same. I assume you will get a much better steel here, but they also charge 600 euros a piece for them. The amazing swordcrafter Patrick Barta of TEMPL armory CZ actually offers an 1810 for about $1850.00 )
Last time I checked E Beuker had the 1802 and 1810 in stock. He’s had a hard time getting restocked.
Rob Stanford does Australia and the US under his Stromloswords logo. If you want to go this route I can endorse Mr Stanford as an aggressive marketer who will offer you a deal you can’t refuse. ( I’m waiting the arrival of eight swords. It’s taken four months for Weaponedge to announce their shipment, and may be another month before I physically have them in hand. This isn’t unheard of for a small armory, but it wasn’t what was advertised or promised. For your consideration. I got a hell of a deal to do this, and if all goes well I’ll be more than happy to kiss Rob’s aspidistra. Stay tuned. )
but sadly I can't rewrite the history of the world (that would be fun wouldn't it... the world according to george300)
