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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2009 22:05:07 GMT
I was thinking about it and I do not see that many reproductions of swords popular from the mid-to-late XIVth century in SGB's price-range (Type XV for example)... There is the new Archer's sword from Darksword Armoury that looks close to a XV, the new Black Prince from same manufacturer,...the cruciform sword ( kultofathena.com/product~item~501104.htm) from Windlass has a kind of resemblance with the type (if you squint...if only it would taper to a more acute point...)...I know of many Del Tins in this category (althought at a higher price)...any other suggestions? Thx R.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2009 22:25:54 GMT
Hanwei Tinker Bastard would fit nicely in the late 14th century although it's an XVIII. And mid to late 14th century is also time when XIIa and XIIIa warswords are still quite popular. And there are VA Practical longsword and Kriegschwert and Hanwei Tinker GSoW to represent these types on the market. If you consider Del Tins than there are a lot of options.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2009 23:55:04 GMT
Thanks for your suggestions Luka...although I should have precised that I'm more looking for a one-hander and of a style more thrust oriented, like a Type XV for example...the Type XII and XIII were still around in the late XIVth but much less than before (that is until their later comeback) IIRC my readings...in the western and southern parts of Europe... I'm more searching for something along the lines of an Arms & Armor "Duke of Urbino", "French Medieval Sword" or Albion's "Poitiers"...only much less expensive and I realize: there are not much repros of such styles in the mid-low price range... More suggestions? What arming sword would a man-at-arm or lesser knight of western Europe in the late 14th carry? edited to add a few precisions...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2009 0:47:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2009 0:57:12 GMT
Ah! Thanks man...indeed, I do need a falchion sooner or later...but for the moment, I'm (very) slowly building myself a late 14th cent. kit from western Europe (France for example) for a man-at-arm or lesser knight (don't want too much bling, don't have a horse either) and was thinking (among so many other things) about the sword that would go with the kit...you know, for when the pole-axe or early halberd brakes...
would a type XVI be too outdated by the end of the XIVth cent.?
Also: why isn't there more Type XV and XVII in the mid-to-low price spectrum of repros?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2009 1:01:35 GMT
Thanks, I guess the Nicopolis could fit the bill with a bit of homemade upgrades (what's with the grip they've done on it?) and the DA Archer is looking nice...
Would the Gen2 Henry be too late for my target period and area?
Of course, ideally, eventually, I'd like an Arms & Armor "French Medieval" or "Duke of Urbino"...hehehe
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2009 3:46:24 GMT
for 1350-1400 type XVIII would be kinda pushing it. XIV, XV and XVI would be in their heydays however for the 1350 era.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 27, 2009 14:53:46 GMT
I'd say keep your eyes on Valiant Armoury. they have TON of swords coming our way as soon a March-ish and one you want just MIGHT be in there. If I were you, I'd pop over to VA's custom sword shoppe forum and send Sonny a PM asking if a XV or XVI sword is in the works. if it isn't you asking about it might just be the kick he needs to put on in the line. Sonny really cares about what we are looking for and I would be surprised if he didn't eventually bring out a type XVI at least.
I think the reason you don't see much in the way of XV swords is because cutting is more popular than thrusting. so backyard cutters aren't often interested in type XV because they want the powerful cutter of a type XII, XIV, XIII or the best of both worlds in the classic design of XVIII. it is unfortunate for you since you want the unpopular sword but the sword you want is normally only sellable to very serious historical enthusiasts who tend to be accustomed to paying top dollar so they get swords that are made closely to historical specs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2009 16:24:32 GMT
Thanks for your advice and opinion, Tom, it's appreciated. Indeed, I'll look to Valiant Armoury and could suggest a reproduction of a sword along the lines of this one: www.myarmoury.com/view.html?features/pic_spotxv04.jpg. It's a nice example of the type (even if possibly a grind down XVIII). Yes, I think Types XV are under-represented because it is not a type of blade really popular or known, compared to a type XII for example. But for myself, more and more, I'm finding an interest and seeing the beauty and functionality in those pointy, diamond section blades...As for a type XVI, I have one reproduction close enough to the type that I could use in the meanwhile with my kit, but they don't seem to be much around by the end of the XIVth c...most historical examples I've seen seem to hail from the first part of that century...then again, some weapons were still in use a long time after their heyday, older blades re-hilted, swords passed down from generations, etc. So, I guess a type XVI could still be plausible... About the Nicopolis sword: the blade should have been more triangular, it is kind of narrow and with almost parallel edges...I think Windlass will not put the effort to get that profile more or less correct...althought the cruciform sword almost gets it...up to the point where it doesn't taper correctly...now, I'd maybe have to grind off that "nice" ecusson on the pommel...or save to get a higher grade sword... edited to add: Type XV seem to have had a long "lifespan" in use and enjoyed much favor throught those centuries...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2009 18:33:42 GMT
Well you have to realize that the 1350-1400 was a time of great change (go having a war that lasts over a 100 years). The XVI and XIV would be more common near the 1350...the XVIII more plausible near then 1400. The only one that was popular for that whole era would be the XV, but a XIV or XVI wouldn´t be out of place either so I would get one of those if you find one you like.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2009 20:20:42 GMT
Might be easier to find a Type XIV (Windlass has one for under $200 and a few of the forumites here have attested to it being a good blade, esp. from Windlass) than a Type XV for that price.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2009 21:52:16 GMT
Type XV are not very well represented in the sub $300 because they are thrusting swords and therefore do not appeal to the backyard cutter, they will cut but not with the same efficiency as other more dedicated cutting swords.
As for whether a type XVI would still be in use at the end of the 14th century, while they were at their height at the beginning of the 14th century, I think you would have still seen plenty of examples of them on a battlefield. What you have to remember is that the equipment for a knight was cripplingly expensive and they would have made it last for as long as possible. The average man at arms would not have bought a sword very often, it is probably a once in a lifetime purchase. There is also plenty of evidence that soldiers used arms and armour that they had inherited from their fathers and grandfather. It would certainly be plausible for a relatively poor man at arms to have a sword that is 20 or 30 years old if not older.
By the way you will need more then one horse, the normal requirement for a man at arms in the English army is at least 3 horses (one to ride, one to fight on, and one for your baggage)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2009 4:13:19 GMT
KingRat: Thanks for your reply. I agree with you and Tom that they may not be cut-oriented swords and hence not appeal as much to the backyard cutting collector...but they still have an interest for the historical sword collector and, as you mention, they still can cut...look at Ric go with his Poitiers! I'm sure the example I posted a few posts up (that is the inspiration for the A&A French Medieval, I think) for example could be attractive to many collectors...as would many other specimen of the type shown in Oakeshott's books... I'm well aware that it wasn't everybody that was equiped with the latest trend in either clothes, armour or weapons, and that many poorer man-at-arms or footman inherited or looted what they could on the battlefield, but thanks for the precision King Rat and Cold Napalm. Speaking of which, I've read an interesting account about one of the Hundred Years War's late battle (forgot which one) where more than one knight (obviously less well-to-do ones) came to the field still wearing old model great helms when most mounted men held even visored bascinets as old-fashioned...but, in the end, an old helm is better than nothing but your hairdo, isn't it? lol As for a Type XVI, I think I could use my Windlass Euro sword until I find a Type XV repro...but was wondering nonetheless... Ebon: thanks for the suggestion, I already bought one Windlass Type XIV when it was deal of the day. Nice little sword indeed, but, I don't know, I don't really see it with my end of XIVth c. kit... I'll try and scan some historical examples of types XV that I think look really nice...and would make nice inspirations for repros! p.s.: King Rat: 3 horses! I think I'll start by getting the right sword and finishing this kit correctly...then maybe, in many many years, will think about horses...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2009 9:18:54 GMT
I also wonder whether it is more expensive to make a type XV. the very acute tip will need to be carefully designed to ensure that does not bend. The metal tempering would have to be very good as well. All that must cost time and money.
When I got my Albion type XV, I was amazed at how delicate the tip looks, but how tough it actually is. The blade thickens slightly just before the end, so that the tip is actually round like a needle.
About handing old swords down, I have just been flicking through Oakeshott’s “Records of the medieval sword” the lat example of a type X appears to have still been in use in the 15th century as has a 15th century guard and pommel.
On horses, yes three at the least for a knight if not more. Just to give you an example, in the preparation for the Henry V’s Agincourt campaign it was assumed that a duke would take fifty horses to France, an earl 24 horses, a baron Sixteen, a man at arms four and a mounted archer one. There is no exact figure (as far as I am aware) of how many horses were taken in the end, but if you consider that there where 12,000 men, of which about a third were men at arms , there could have easily been 20 thousand horses at the beginning of the campaign
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Dec 1, 2009 2:45:41 GMT
I wouldn't think it is more expensive to make the flattened diamond blades if you are using a machine like so many of our maers do. hand forging, yes probably more expensive due to a harder job. once we get above SBG price range both Albion and A&A especially have a LOT of flat diamond blades. I know they aren't supposed to be as good at cutting as their older lenticular-shaped cousins but I have been real impressed with the cutting ability of all the flattened diamond blades I have held, even the very narrow and light Hanwei/Tinker bastard sword. I think what they lack in weight they make up in speed, thinness, and long narrow edge bevels. sure they can't handle harder targets as well but for soft targets I think they are almost superior. I rant on this a little in my 1557 review in my latest post there. I think the big thing that keeps these from being made with backyard cutters in mind is the mind-set, or BELIEF that they don't cut well, and the fact that their thin edges are more prone to failure more than their actual cutting ability.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 21:33:39 GMT
When I suggested that there may be a difficulty in producing type XV blades I was not so much referring to the flattened diamond cross section, but rather the acute points of type XV’s , producing a point like this, that is well designed, and hardened enough not to deform under impact, must require good steal tempering and more time in R and D then the wider points of earlier swords. I wonder whether these difficulties deter the sub $300 manufactures from producing such swords.
In regard to cutting abilities I think it very much depends on what kind of swords you are referring to, if we are talking about cut and thrusting swords where the blade maintains some width(like a type XVIII) then I would be in agreement with you they are quick and can cut effectively. However, while in my view type XV’s can cut well, they are not as easy to cut with as a cut orientated blade. It seems that if you get everything right they cut like a dream, but if you get the cut wrong, they are not forgiving. For a beginner picking up their first sword, I think it would be far easer(and perhaps more satisfying) to go out and cut bottles with a type XII then a XV.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 21:38:49 GMT
Albion makes a selection of Type XV, XVI and XVIII swords; might want to check them out. Naturally, quite outside of the SBG pricepoint but if you want a good one, that is historically plausible, if not outright accurate, that is where you want to go.
Maybe CF might have some Atrim blades that fit that profile...worth a look.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Dec 1, 2009 22:08:00 GMT
points, yeah I could see that being hard. I wasn't think of the points. I ummmmm see your point. as for cutting you could be right I would like to cut with a good XV and see how it feels. I would think that it can't be that hard so long as the edge is sharp. being light it should be easy to generate lots of blade speed to compensate for lack of mass. it would all come down to blade shape I think. don't some XV swords have a very prominent central ridge, like it jumps up all of a sudden? that would effect cutting ability for sure. but if it is just a narrow long flattened diamond . . . well I'd love to give a good one a try.
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