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Post by enkidu on Nov 21, 2009 16:05:37 GMT
Selling pricier products generally means that you consequently sell less of them. In order to make profit you have to get a higher profit margin out of your products. Which means that the customer inevitably gets less for its money. I'm quite sure the blades will stay the same, only a couple of cosmetic details in bonuses for twice the price. Thats how i see it, i just hope i'm wrong, future will tell us. I cant blame Mr Trim to make more money, but as a customer that tells me a lot about the choices i need to make when i buy a product.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 21, 2009 17:24:41 GMT
well, Mr. Fletcher said that those $450 swords never earned Mr. Trim enough to live on and while I'm not going to go into what I have heard, from what I have heard I think it is high time Mr. Trim made a little more from his swords and started living a little better. if what I hear is true and accurate I think most people who Buy Mr. Trim's swords live much better than he does. I will not begrudge the man a raise. I will just have to work harder to get one of his creations.
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Post by enkidu on Nov 21, 2009 17:49:04 GMT
Then if a compromise can be reach between price and profit, and the overall package seems to worth it i totally agree. But if the prestige line or VA regal is the goal to attain in their marketing plan then... you'll have to put up one hell of a review with the antioch to convince me Tom That said i could just be totally wrong and maybe i'll retract after seeing the results ( which i sincerly hope ) but i'm a bit suspicious That said, without compromising your review, how's the Antioch ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2009 18:02:03 GMT
Well, not good news to me. The triple fuller XIII was kind of my "limited-budget" dream sword, just out of reach but not prohibitively so once I actually get out of school and get a job. I'm sure that the current models are worth a lot more than he charges performance-wise. And it's not like I can justify spending $450 any more than $10,000 on a piece of metal.
Oh well. When I'm rich and famous.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 21, 2009 19:00:43 GMT
I don't know if Prestige Line is going to be the new standard but there will also be Valiant's regal line which will get you a sword AND scabbard set for about the same price as a bare blade Prestige and who knows what Mr.s Trim and Fletcher have in store for us.
I really like the antioch. I haven't had much chance to cut with it since I now live underwater but I will be taking it to San Pedro on the 4th so there will be cutting video from that day. I can tell you from dry handling that it moves great. I have very few nit-picks I can pin on it and I can pick nits with the best of them. so yeah, the Antioch is a really good sword. it is certainly better than the Albion I've had.
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Post by enkidu on Nov 21, 2009 19:04:39 GMT
The triple fullers XIII is really something, i can tell you. Thats sad.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 1:35:58 GMT
I hope that gus' financial situation improves. He deserves it. He has done much to further the functional, performance sword market in the last decade, and they have been incredible bargains. Given his and Christian's reputation for innovation and excellence, I'm sure whatever they have in store will be a leap forward.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 22, 2009 5:46:38 GMT
the Antioch is quite a sword, I'm sure the new lines will be very good. I hope they keep some of their classics like the 1557 around. I just got mine in today and boy is it something to behold!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2009 23:12:58 GMT
The triple fullers XIII is really something, i can tell you. Thats sad. And you DO tell me every time I bring it up. Stop that! lol
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Post by enkidu on Nov 23, 2009 15:50:24 GMT
I know But i cant help it lol !
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 16:20:25 GMT
I hope that gus' financial situation improves. He deserves it. He has done much to further the functional, performance sword market in the last decade, and they have been incredible bargains. Given his and Christian's reputation for innovation and excellence, I'm sure whatever they have in store will be a leap forward. I thought Gus just didn't want to be bothered with the public part of selling swords, so he's using CF as the go-between?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 17:14:43 GMT
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 23, 2009 17:17:51 GMT
I think my comment has been slightly mis-interpreted. let's not go overboard and assume things. I'm not saying the guy is broke I wouldn't know about that. I really shouldn't have mentioned it since I don't have all the facts or the right to talk about it. please ignore my previous postings on this subject.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 22:43:56 GMT
...damn.
I suppose I shouldn't have waited to buy that ATrim I had my eye on, but financially at the time I couldn't justify it. If prices are going to go up for purely cosmetic improvements, looks like I'm going to have to miss out - the reason I was going to buy one was because ATrims have always been the best performing swords, not the best looking ones.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 23, 2009 22:54:39 GMT
Psycho, I think we all here agree with that feeling. it is a sad day for SBG but I suppose it was inevitable when you consider the increase in quality offerings from Vanliant Armory and the Tinker/Hanwei lines. one of the things that has kept me from buying the signature series is how close they are in price to the old ATrim lines, and let us not forget that Atrim/CF are both tightly partnered with Valiant Armory. so now Valiant signatures will be filling the niche Atrim leaves to compete with Albion and A&A. nor will there ever be unless Mr. Fletcher changes his mind. he told us there would not be stats listed
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 23:00:19 GMT
...damn. I suppose I shouldn't have waited to buy that ATrim I had my eye on, but financially at the time I couldn't justify it. If prices are going to go up for purely cosmetic improvements, looks like I'm going to have to miss out - the reason I was going to buy one was because ATrims have always been the best performing swords, not the best looking ones. I think his work is tending more towards the high-end performance end met by higher priced/better quality and aesthetics versions that Gus and Christian may make, whereas the lower priced, but high quality end is met by VA's production stuff. VA's still-in-development custom sword shoppe would serve the middle-end (such as the original atrims) by allowing customization and refinements of their productions.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 23:30:21 GMT
Oh, I understand the logic completely - and I'm sure it makes sense from Gus' point of view. It's just that my focus has always been on performance rather than aesthetics, and ATrim swords allowed me to get my hands on a sword that by almost all accounts has equal handling and better cutting and heat treat characteristics than Albions, at a fraction of the price.
Forget fancier guards, pommel and finish - and while a scabbard would be nice, I would rather have a blade worth $450 than a blade worth $350 and a scabbard worth $100. I'm not going to wear it anywhere (the police frown on that and I am not a ren faire type), and I can always display it bare.
What VA is doing is wonderful - it's just that Gus used to cater exactly to my personal sword needs.
Edit: Or am I getting it wrong, is Gus also improving his blade characteristics as well?
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 23, 2009 23:41:00 GMT
I understand EXACTLY what you feel and I agree with it. performance has always been my #1 priority. from what Mr. Fletcher says though there WILL be design/performance improvements and in fact many of them have already been made as Mr. Trim has been constantly tweeking and improving his swords as he makes them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 0:15:16 GMT
Bugger it, I'm not going to vacillate and miss out again. Maker's Mark Type XIII - Triple Fullered now has my name on it. While there may be performance improvements, I can't imagine they'll be large enough to justify the (probably quite significant) markup that the full package of changes plus increased profit margin will entail. ...anyone want to buy the next Kokoro Ichi to ship? Now I need to find US$510 somewhere to repay my poor bank account for that impulse purchase. /index.cgi?board=selling&action=display&thread=12872&page=1
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Post by ShooterMike on Nov 24, 2009 4:39:00 GMT
Just my two cents here...
The changes to blade properties that Gus is working out are a significant improvement over the swords he made in the last year or two. The guards and pommels will certainly step them up several notches on the desireability scale. And in real dollars, they will cost about the same. Seems to be really no downside to me.
I understand the more popular models in both the Legacy and Maker's Mark lines will still be around for a while. I believe more 1557 are in the works now. And several 1520s have been delivered and sold over the last few weeks.
No real need to fret about it. Just be ready to buy when a sword you want becomes available. At least those are my thoughts.
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