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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2009 12:30:52 GMT
The balance of a sword will affect how fast you can move it, and how precisely.
I remember a video of someone (Tsafa I think) doing wrap around cuts on a tatami with various swords. The sword basically did a 180 degree "arc" before striking. People were saying that the better blade geometry was giving him better cutting power, but I pointed out how faster he seemed to be able to strike with certain swords.
The faster your blade moves, the more kinetic energy it has. I don't have as much experience as many here, but I do know if your POB is too far from the grip, it will me more difficult to strike swiftly.
Ancalagon
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2009 16:06:52 GMT
The sword balance is important for being able to change direction. If the balance is close to the hilt, you can change direction more easily. If the balance is too close, the blade my bounce off the target rather then bite into it. On a 3 lb single handed sword with a 30 inch blade, I like the balance about 3 inches down from the hilt. This is close balance and resembles a Type XIV with a steep taper. It allows me to change direction fast but also means I have to put more power into my cuts to make them bite because of the lack of blade presence. A type X by comparison has nearly parallel edges with lot of blade presence. The balance can be 6 to 8 inches down from the hilt on a 3 lb sword. It does not take much effort to make a powerful cut. It takes a considerable amount of effort to reverse direction. The sword style that I am becoming most found of is one like Albion's Solingen. www.albion-swords.com/swords/johnsson/sword-museum-solingen.htmThis is a 2.5 lb sword with a balance 5 inches down the guard. The balance allows this otherwise light light sword to make good cuts. The sword is light enough so that I can still rapidly change direction. The AT1315 is another example of a light sword with a low point of balance that cuts like a heavier sword. So you can see that the balance can allow to "cheat" the weight of the sword. It can make a light sword perform like a heavier sword... or a heavy sword perform like a lighter sword. The is no correct balance or weight for a sword. There are ranges. It is a matter of finding the right sword to fit your fighting style... or adjusting your fighting style to fit your sword... whichever you prefer.
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Post by ShooterMike on Nov 12, 2009 19:01:05 GMT
After considering this question at length, I have to say my position is:
How a sword balances, i.e. where the PoB is located, makes not nearly as much difference as how the mass is distributed. This is where complex distal taper comes into play.
Take, for example, two very similar hypothetical swords: both are Type XII swords that weigh exactly 2 lbs 4 ozs, with identical 4" grips, 31" blades with identical profiles, identical guards, and a 4" PoB. The only thing that's different is the pommel size/weight.
Sword 1 has 85% of it's mass (weight) in the tang and first 12" of the blade by having complex concave distal taper. The blade thickness is 0.250" at the guard and tapers to 0.180" at 12" from the guard. It then tapers down to 0.100" an inch from the tip, then thins out to the tip. The pommel weighs about 3-4 ozs.
Sword 2 has 65% of it's mass (weight) in the tang and first 12" of the blade by having a simple convex distal taper. The blade thickness is 0.250" at the guard. At 12" the thickness is 0.220" and an inch behind the tip it has tapered to the same 0.100" in thickness. The pommel weighs about 6-7 ozs.
These swords will look identical to the casual observer. Even under close visual inspection they will look almost the same. But when you pick them up they feel TOTALLY different. Sword 1 feels lively and begs you to go "cleave something in twain", you smile as you move it gracefully through the air. YOU WANTS IT!
Sword 2 on the other hand, may feel more club-like. You will think it is much heavier than sword 1. You will wave it around a bit, frown, and put it down so you can pick up sword 1 again.
But they look the same and they weigh the same, you'll think. What's going on?!
The answer is "Mass distribution and complex distal taper."
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 12, 2009 19:16:04 GMT
that's what a few of were getting at earlier in this thread but were not able to state it so well. thanks for that Mike.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2009 23:26:37 GMT
I like tsafa's and ShooterMike's answers. Mike's because he talks about the dimensions of the swords and eludes to the science behind the designs. Tsafa's because he talks about technique. I'd like to elaborate on tsafa's answer with this, the WAY you cut is just as important as the design of the sword when it comes to cutting. I'm still new in actual cutting, but I'm a 2nd dan black belt in Tae Kwon Do, as well as, experienced in Judo, Hapkido, and Kali. One thing I take from those martial arts is technique is EVERYTHING. You won't be able to throw someone over your hip or send someone flying with a kick if your technique sucks. You can find sideshow "freaks" who walk on swords or take a sword chop to the gut without harming themselves. The way they can do this is that the full force of the blow is acting perpendicular to the edge of the blade. Granted, human skin has a breaking point, especially to a point force, but skin is also very strong and stretchy. Now, if you take those same "freaks" and SLICE the blade across their feet or stomach it's definitely going to cut them wide open with little effort.
With all that said, my engineer side has to say the simple answer to the question is yes, all other variables kept constant, sword B will have more perpendicular cutting power. But, as with all scientific questions, there is never a simple answer. As you can probably tell, I prefer a slicing technique over a hacking and slashing technique.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 3:20:14 GMT
it seems to me, and i have only limited experience in the matter, that a sword with a lower POB such as a jian, or rapier, would be best suited to thrusts and perhaps quick, distracting, but more or less superficial cuts. Having said that jian were really meant to be a perfect balance of cut and thrust, developing from a supposed combination of spear and dao techniques. i digress.
what i'm basically saying is, a sword with a POB further up, such as a katana, or Norse sword, would function much better as a a cutter, whereas a sword with a lower POB would function best as a cut and thrust or simply thrusting weapon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 3:42:40 GMT
Jasko, as someone who fights with both rapiers and cutting swords, my feeling is, a balance point close to the hilt allows someone to maintain a Point-In-Line guard with less effort. The advantage to this in unarmored combat is that someone can not attack you without dealing with the point in front of them first. If they try to attack around it, the point-in-line has the advantage of a shorter distance to the target. They must somehow get the point out of the way first. That is where good bladework comes into play.
With a Norse style sword I have no trouble bringing the point into play but it is more tiring to maintain Point-In-Line guard. With a Type Xa I prefer to hold a high guard. With most Type X, I might just rest the blade on my shoulder and fire from there with the torque of the hips. A heavier cutting sword like this will most likely be used against a variety of arms and armor in different configurations. It is a battlefield weapon. A rapier by contrast is a very specialized urban weapon.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Dec 3, 2009 4:14:56 GMT
you want to see a light sword cutting well watch the video in my recent 1557 review. that little sword weighs 2lbs 1oz with a POB just over 3" and it out cuts the much more authoritive type XII Antioch. there are several factors at play obviously but there's no denying that it is a wonderful sword. also check out Shooter Mikes cutting from the scabbard video in the coolest cuts archive (link in my signature) for more impressive cutting with a 1557 that is even lighter than mine (1lbs 14oz.)
also I agree with Tsafa, he knows his stuff, I just thought I'd add a bit.
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