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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2009 6:26:33 GMT
I believe it is a quote from one of Talhoffer's treatise, the quote I nicked for Brissy who has it under his avatar, but I am pretty sure it is Talhoffer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2009 2:15:42 GMT
For straight up swords, I prefer the double edged any day. But if I were looking for a sword that I'd have to "survive" with, I'd get a single edge. A neat little trick with single edged weapon is that they can be used as an axe, just take the blade, hold it against a tree, then take a heavy limb or a rock and bash it against the blunt side.
Then again... I'd take a double edged sword... and a hatchet =D
Ah, and thats interesting to know WHY the rapier is sharpened. Makes a lot of sense to cut in both directions rather then gliding along one path and cutting the other. Then it makes sense for when you retract the blade at an angle +/- to which it entered, then it does even more cutting.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2009 19:12:55 GMT
I'd get a single edged sword with a false edge... in fact I AM getting such a tactical sword. Can't wait for it!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2009 20:15:27 GMT
A single edge sword is a waste of a few feet of steel. ...but never say that to a Samurai!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2009 19:41:25 GMT
I'd say that to a Samurai any day!
But first you'd have to find me a Samurai. Then I'd bank on the fact that he didn't understand English, so I'd say it while smiling and bowing and hopefully he'd just go back through the space/time rift he came from.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2009 19:29:50 GMT
I would assume it helps a lot with penetration of a stab as well.
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Post by randomnobody on Oct 30, 2009 19:38:57 GMT
You know, that would be an interesting test. Has anybody ever done it?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2009 19:43:21 GMT
Sure, there's reams and reams of treatises as well as 'historical' accounts of battles won and lost...somewhere in there, I know they made mention of that. lol
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2009 20:55:08 GMT
@ Igaretto
that's why the the Gladius is double edged. Look to the best stabbers in history to see, they chose a double edged blade.
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Post by randomnobody on Oct 30, 2009 21:35:40 GMT
Sure, there's reams and reams of treatises as well as 'historical' accounts of battles won and lost...somewhere in there, I know they made mention of that. lol So the countless battles fought with single-edge blades were all doing it wrong? I'd have never imagined... No, seriously, is it a matter of coincidence or legitimate design?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2009 0:25:42 GMT
Again, the reason that double edged blades are nastier stabbers is that there is a slicing motion on either side of the point to open up the wound wider. A single edged blade can stab quite nicely, eg. the typical single edged rondel, but double edged blades open the wound track more effectively. Also, with a double edged blade and a single edged blade of the same width, there's less steel in the double edged blade to push into a body. this is the reason that on a lot of combat knives, you'll see a false edge for a couple of inches culminating in the tip, because it makes stabbing easier. That said, single edged blades will be more ridged (in general) and better for punching through tough materials, hence the typical cross-section of a rondel.
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Post by randomnobody on Oct 31, 2009 2:51:00 GMT
Yet bayonets for some time tended to be round spikes? I can certainly see the reasoning, but I do have a tendency to ponder. A wider wound track is one thing, a proficient stab is another, a good slash is still one more...then comes...well, anyway, there is a vast multitude of ways to kill a man...but ultimately very few feature two sharp edges...
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Oct 31, 2009 3:26:55 GMT
there are lots of ways to make a blade (pointy thing whatever you call it) be an effective stabber. katana are pretty decent thrusters and the design of their tip cuts as it enters the body too. the human body isn't hard to thrust into at all. heck you can do it with a blunt pipe or a piece of rebar. the design of thrusting swords has much more to do with what sort of defenses it needs to get past to stab the body THAT is the driving factor behind all sword designs, not what kills people best.
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Post by randomnobody on Oct 31, 2009 3:28:40 GMT
Yes but how does THAT contribute to the double-edge design?
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Oct 31, 2009 4:21:00 GMT
well I think there's a certain amount of tradition involved too. certainly Europeans COULD have made sinlge edge cut and thrust sword but double edge were tradition and they adapted the double edge blades they understood to trusting when it became important to focus more on the thrust. sure, eventually they developed three sided swords for thrusting and all manner of other types of blade for all manner of special uses, but the double edged sword remained prominent. why? wish I could tell you, but I suspect it was more from tradition and the fact that's what they knew and understood best. if it ain't broke don't fix it. the Japanse took a pretty different direction.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2009 9:09:21 GMT
I still say that the reason the double edged sword came to be was so that you could carry one sword and two blades. I'll look into this a bit more over the weekend if I can remember, but as far as cause and effect go, I think that after the double edge came to be, people noticed that it thrusted better then earlier single edged blades, so then they went on to making 3 edged thrusters (which might have also come from the stability you get out of a triangle as opposed to a "line") As far as spike bayonets go, my deduction on that is for the safety of the user. Grab the spike and put it on the weapon, no edges to cut yourself on! Then the whole "Well why don't we just make a handle for them to hold onto and give them a blade for a bayonet" logic comes into play. I'm no historian, but in my happy and ignorant world, that makes perfect sense to me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2009 14:57:19 GMT
Probably human attraction to symmetry. Most stone tools are double edged.
M.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2009 17:35:13 GMT
As for bayonets, They were made quickly and cheaply for the most part and thats why many didnt have edges. Not because that was necessarily the point.
I believe that double-edged blades were and are usually, (not always) better thrusters in general because there are sharp edges on either side and those edges cut as the blade goes in and double-edged blades were probably used also because there are two edges and the sword wont dull quite as fast.
As for the stabbing part though, I dont think there is enough difference in how easily the blade stabs for most people to notice as much
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