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Post by Kilted Cossack on Oct 8, 2009 2:24:07 GMT
Gents, and ladies:
Does anyone have both the AT303S and the Hanwei/Tinker Early Medieval Single Handed Sword? I, for one, would be interested in a "head to head" comparison. (Not contest or competition, but comparison.)
I like both of these swords for a number of reasons. First off, they track very closely with the picture I see in my head when I think "European sword." (I'm not saying there the best or even most typical Euro swords, just what I see in my head. Where the sky is green sometimes.)
Second, these swords each represent an encouraging new trend in what we might call the "SBG Western sword market." While both Hanwei and Valiant have been producing Western swords for a while, there's a new spirit of innovation here. By working with Gus Trim and Tinker Pearce, volume manufacturers are learning how to step up their game, and hopefully, some of us frugal sword buyers will get a taste for a real Atrim or Tinker sword.
Third, and perhaps most important, the general consensus seems to be that the two swords are value for the money, and pretty fine swords to boot.
Both swords would fit into a rough typology---blades a little over 30 inches, length a little under a meter, weight about a kilo, POB about 4 1/2" (per KOA), pretty much plain but serious arming swords. I'm curious about how they differ, if they do much at all.
I'm not looking to bag on one of them, nor brag on the other. I ended up with the VA arming sword, when all was said and done. That was pretty much just because I heard about it first. I'm pretty sure they're both fine swords. I'd imagine it's like the difference between a Colt Official Police revolver and a Smith and Wesson Military & Police revolver---two fine choices, but with little differences and quirks between them ( like their cylinders spinning in different directions).
So, anyone actually own both? Or failing that, has anyone handled them enough to make comments? I understand that one sword does not speak for the whole line, and that as hand-forged pieces there will be minor variations, but I'd still love to get a comparison report.
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Post by kidcasanova on Oct 8, 2009 3:34:30 GMT
I'm staring heavily at Tom right now. His response will be really interesting.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Oct 8, 2009 3:54:30 GMT
I own a VA303s Custom tuned first generation arming sword and I can compare to that, but sadly, the new 303 sounds like it is a LOT lighter, faster, and better. however some comparisons can be made.
profile is the biggie for me here: I LOOOOVE the shape of the H/T EMSHS blade profile. the EMSHS blade is a LOT wider at the base than the 303's and the fuller on the EMSHS starts out fat and tapers with the blade profile. the at 303 is very straight and the fuller is narrow and very straight, which I like less but is still fine in it's own way.
Hilt furniture: the VA at 303 has slightly better furniture than the H/T models right from the factory but then Sonny goes and does the leather in-house and BLOWS away the EMSHS furniture that way. VA makes better scabbards too
I suspect that the VA 303 still has a thicker blade out in the weak but I don't know about the new generation 303. I'll say this about the EMSHS: the only swords I've seen that have the sort of distal taper the EMSHS has have been Albion swords. Shooter Mike recently did a handling review of my EMSHS and on the private video he sent me he kept saying things like: "I like this", "so sweet", and "man that's nice" he expressed the opinion that because of the way the mass of the blade was distributed the sword would move well even if it had a POB much further out than it does. I know the first gen 303 is a powerful forward balanced cutter and it nowhere NEAR as fast. the new 303 might rival the EMSHS but somehow I doubt it.
the 303 will be sharpened better and all the way up and down the blade while the EMSHS has a very blunt area ear the hilt. this doesn't bother me but some people don't care for it. how blunt is it? well I think it's almost as thick as the edge of a nickel.
in the end there are good points about each. I think the EMSHS has the edge in handling while the 303 has the edge in quality control and quality fittings and leather.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2009 3:57:58 GMT
And the VA costs less $255 vs $215
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Post by Eaglehawk on Oct 8, 2009 4:34:30 GMT
I don't have an EMSHS so can't give you a compare (sorry), but I can tell you my custom 303s feels like an extension of my arm.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Oct 8, 2009 13:58:15 GMT
Kid Casanova:
Wow, dude, you psychic, or what?
Tom K:
Thanks so much! Ideally, we'd be able to compare current generation iterations, but I'll take what I can get, and happily so. I don't have an Albion, but I've read enough to figure out that comparing any of 'our' swords (i.e., the SBG target range of sub-$300 functionals) to an Albion is high praise indeed.
Chris A:
Yeah, a little cheaper, and from Tom's comments better furniture . . . but I'd call them in the same range. Forty dollars? That's a bottle of whiskey or taking the family to dinner and a movie, either of which would be forgotten in short order.
Eaglehawk:
Is your 303S from the first generation? Mine's from the second, and I like it. Part of my problem is that it's the only cruciform style Euro sword I own, so I don't have much to compare it to. I need to cut more with it, but it flows very naturally in the hand.
Guys, thanks for the responses---and keep 'em coming.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2009 14:04:02 GMT
Chris A: ... or taking the family to dinner and a movie, either of which would be forgotten in short order. But what if it was a really good movie??? ;D It may not be a lot of money to some of us, but $40 to some people can be a deal breaker so I thought I'd mention it.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Oct 8, 2009 14:07:31 GMT
Chris A:
Fair enough! The difference isn't significant enough to matter to me (well, it might cause me to wait a couple of weeks, or a month), but one of my mantras is: Just because I view something one way doesn't mean it's right for everyone, and maybe it's not even right for me.
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Post by Eaglehawk on Oct 8, 2009 14:43:56 GMT
Kid Casanova: Wow, dude, you psychic, or what? Eaglehawk: Is your 303S from the first generation? Mine's from the second, and I like it. Part of my problem is that it's the only cruciform style Euro sword I own, so I don't have much to compare it to. I need to cut more with it, but it flows very naturally in the hand. Guys, thanks for the responses---and keep 'em coming. Second generation. Here are some pictures of it: www.custom-sword-shoppe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=180&sid=3a84f68b9524f08f9ba31c9938b279d3&start=20
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Oct 8, 2009 15:23:37 GMT
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Post by shadowhowler on Oct 8, 2009 15:29:11 GMT
I have a second gen AT303S... I don't have a EMSHS but I'm considering one very strongly. I think dispite the generation issue, Tom's comments are likely to be very on target. I think the leatherwork, scabbard, and over all furnature of the VA might be better... but from what I have read, I think *I* will prefer the handing/performance of the EMSHS because of the mass distrubution... the weight near the grip, the profile and distil taper... those together are likely to make the EMSHS a much faster and more nimble sword. However... when/if I get one... I'm going to do it threw Sonny's new Custom sword shoppe, so I get the best of both worlds.
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Post by YlliwCir on Oct 8, 2009 17:33:53 GMT
Chris A: ... or taking the family to dinner and a movie, either of which would be forgotten in short order. But what if it was a really good movie??? ;D It may not be a lot of money to some of us, but $40 to some people can be a deal breaker so I thought I'd mention it. Hell, you can buy a katana for forty bucks. Just kidding katana guys. ;D I have a first gen 303 and I like it a lot. I was put off the H/T line because of the edge but Toms praise is making me take another look. I value his opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2009 17:43:12 GMT
Hell, you can buy a katana for forty bucks. Haha! Ric wins the comedian award.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Oct 8, 2009 18:37:01 GMT
Shadowhowler has the right idea I think. EMSHS through the Custom Sword Shoppe = best of both worlds. will increase the price a bit but I say it's worth it.
I think the grip area is a VERY important part of the sword and I don't like the standard grip that comes with the EMSHS (I can tell just by looking at it and comparison to the H/T bastard) I also don't like the stock grip on the VA swords as they came from the forge in the 1st gen. this is why I LOVE Sonny's Custom sword shoppe. they'll do risers and custom shaping of the grip for you for cheap. I am learning how to build my own grips but I see the value of Sonny's shop. in fact, I think the custom grip is more important than the better leather work and improved scabbards.
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Post by kidcasanova on Oct 9, 2009 5:10:42 GMT
Kilted: Sometimes I get these visions... Since Tom's compared the EMSHS to an Albion, I figure I'd throw in my opinion after owning two 303S's (first get Custom Tuned and a second gen semi-custom). I've handled the Knight quite a bit yesterday and today, and though I am admittedly nowhere near "authority" level about swords, I'll say my bit. In pure handling, the Knight is superior to the 303 (both dry handling, I never cut with the second gen 303 and havent had a chance to cut with the Knight), but the 303 still handles very very well. Both are very comfortable and move pretty easily through my limited forms. I feel the Knight is superior due to better mass distribution, but I'd bet anything that the second-gen 303 comes nearly as close as Tom says the H/T does. It was drastically different from the first-gen. Much more profile taper, thinner tip (I didn't have calipers but the distal taper seemed more significant than my first-gen). I second what Tom says about the grip, though. I ended up getting the beefier Crusader grip for my second 303 and it makes a humongous difference in handling. Far more comfortable and user-friendly.
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