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Post by enkidu on Oct 23, 2009 2:25:00 GMT
Telling you from experience what is the best option in a particular situation is no ill intent. Looking for some kind of revenge is.
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Post by septofclansinclair on Oct 23, 2009 2:46:16 GMT
I think all legit businesses should be listed with the BBB. If you disagree then you must have ill intent, for I can think of no other reason. I am not sure you understand the BBB maybe. As for me paying international return shipping for a defect, Not a chance. This sword should have been thrown out of the shop (it looks like it was) or scraped. I am not the only person to get one either. So this is not a fluke. I am unhappy DSA called these cosmetic and not structural. Other than annealing and straightening the blade and putting a good quench hoping it wont warp again I see no other way to fix this sword. I thought of a roller press but this is a hard blade. This was just the most major problem with the sword. The other probs were similar to the original posters probs. One edge of my blade is flush with the handle the other hangs over the other side of the handle by just over a half an inch hahaha. I understand you give the maker the benefit of the doubt but when it comes down to it the autonomy of SBG as an entity for re-assurance has little they can do for something like this. So DSA isn't even listed with the BBB, now I will request that they are walla. It can only further to help them and consumers. I think the BBB is a good thing, and think it would be wonderful if every business was listed on there. Especially businesses that operate online. I think that before people leave bad reviews with the BBB, though, they should see the issue through from start to finish, including contacting the company and giving them a reasonable chance to make good. That would usually be considered an honourable thing to do. Otherwise the review you leave will be less than useful for describing the entire situation, as it only gives the presenting problem and none of the information that many people will be looking for (the company's response, the resolution of the issue, etc.).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2009 2:48:54 GMT
I guess asking to consider that damage happened in shipping is asking too much? Sounds more like someone is looking to cause trouble rather than looking to settle the matter. And anyone who disagrees has "ill intent"? Wow. Or maybe some people are not as quick to mar someone's business reputation without letting them address the issue. I think a rational person would give the vendor a reasonable opportunity to make good before running to the BBB. Or who is it that has the ill intent?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2009 7:58:11 GMT
I understand that you are angry because your investment did not turn out the way it seemingly should have, but Eyal has alot of respect here because he has good customer service. Though some members may like or dislike his swords, not many would say that he would not correct a problem with his product. I am sure this will work itself out if you give him a chance to make right by you.
In the meantime, could you give us some pictures of the defects you are talking about?
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Post by kidcasanova on Oct 23, 2009 8:14:53 GMT
I'll probably catch flack for it, but I haven't ever seen a set of posts on this forum more deserving of smite. PM sent.
Also, Eyal's a great guy, but business trips can put a damper on speedy emails pretty quickly. Give the guy a chance before you get up in arms on some crusade to burn and pillage the man's business.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2009 12:54:48 GMT
I think all legit businesses should be listed with the BBB. If you disagree then you must have ill intent, for I can think of no other reason. It would seem that the ill intent rests with you. You ordered a sword from their Seconds sale- knowing full well (or you should have, if you read the ad well) that there would be cosmetic issues but that these swords would be serviceable. That is, you can cut, spar, do forms work- whatever....but it might not be the prettiest piece. All of this was known before you purchased the sword; granted, I would not have been pleased with what you got either - but threatening to report a business to the BBB because you essentially got what you paid for? Believe me, I HIGHLY doubt Eyal wants to rob you of your $150 or whatever you spent- especially since you're a member of SBG where he has a presence and we all pretty much have had interactions with the man, on the board, in PM and in some of our cases, like mine, before SBG was ever established. Eyal Azerad is an honorable man who stands by his products- if you're not happy, he'll do whatever he can to rectify that. Why not try that route first?
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Oct 23, 2009 13:55:17 GMT
I don't want to pile on.
I'm a big believer in defending the honesty of transactions, and a big believer in expectations being met. If I got a sword that was defective, I would be upset as well, and would expect satisfaction from the vendor. At the same time, I urge you to proceed reasonably. So far as I can tell, none of the vendors we shop from are exactly Wal-Mart, with a dedicated 24-hour customer service infrastructure. Take time to communicate with them. It costs nothing but time.
I always try to be polite and reasonable in communication with vendors or service providors. I always try to remember that it's not a grand conspiracy aimed against me personally---sometimes expectations simply aren't met. The old saying goes that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, and I've found that courtesy tends to make conflict resolution smoother and faster.
I mean no offense in saying (or typing) this. I could be entirely off base with every word I have written, and the advice is worth exactly what you've paid for it.
I hope this is all resolved to your satisfaction.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2009 14:01:23 GMT
It's not piling on to urge someone to adopt a reasonable course of action.
I also would urge you to await Eyals reply to your email before embarking on a mission to rectify your problem
Chuck
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Post by skystone on Oct 23, 2009 20:07:07 GMT
Okay, well Hmmm. I repeat and will try to clarify. If a company thinks the BBB is a bad entity then they have ill intent of doing bad business practices. I requested the BBB list DSA. Filing a claim is a different matter and they are there to protect consumers in that department to. I wrote DSA and waited more than a few days before I posted here. Thanks for all the hateful mail and smites. Kidcassanova your way out of line and if that's how think towards me and express yourself, I wish the best for you and please just avoid me. That would be easiest. I sure hope this doesn't happen to anyone else. I did not know I was supposed to be aware ahead of time that this was a rejected piece. I know this poor sad sword is my fault now and I will cease the posting of smears and defamation of character. I hope for a good out come and thank others who want the same. Again sorry for being unhappy with my sword. So... I bow out of the thread sorry for the hostilities truly.
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Post by septofclansinclair on Oct 23, 2009 20:51:45 GMT
Okay, well Hmmm. I repeat and will try to clarify. If a company thinks the BBB is a bad entity then they have ill intent of doing bad business practices. Has DSA stated they think the BBB is a "bad" entity? Because if they had then that would be another matter. I'm not sure where you got that from. I wrote DSA and waited more than a few days before I posted here. What is "more than a few days?" A week? Two weeks? Did you contact the vendor that you purchased through (Paul at SBG)? Or just DSA directly (whose owner is, as stated, on a business trip for most of October and no reply during this time is to be expected)? When buying a DSA through a vendor the proper person to contact is the vendor, since you are their customer and not directly DSA's. Some wait time is normal, I don't think you have anything to worry about yet at this stage. I did not know I was supposed to be aware ahead of time that this was a rejected piece. I know this poor sad sword is my fault now and I will cease the posting of smears and defamation of character. I don't think anyone stated that this sword's condition was "your fault," just that there are proper ways of going about getting proper customer service. If you have a defective sword DSA or the SBG store will take care of you. Every forge puts out a lemon now and then (yes, some more than others). I hope for a good out come and thank others who want the same. Again sorry for being unhappy with my sword. So... I bow out of the thread sorry for the hostilities truly. I hope everyone who responded hopes for a good outcome for you, as do I - which is why I encourage you to follow proper procedures by contacting Paul and giving him or DSA a chance to respond before you give up hope and write them off as a bad business. You will be more likely to have a positive outcome that way than any other that I am aware of.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2009 20:59:10 GMT
Not to mention, it was a Seconds sale; seeing as you're new to SBG, this usually means that there will be some defects in workmanship but the swords are still serviceable. I truly believe that, if a mistake was made on the part of DSA, Eyal will rectify it. Even if it is determined to be caused by whoever delivered the piece to your door, he might STILL take care of it; that's the type of guy we all know him to be.
There's nothing wrong with being unhappy with a purchase, it happens all the time to all of us at some point- but you went from unhappy to stating that since DSA used a US shipping company, you could file a fraud claim on them.
THAT is what we took issue with, because as of this post, that claim is unfounded and I'd venture to say, given only in vitriol, and not from a well adjusted thought process. You're mad, we get it- making such inflammatory remarks because you're mad doesn't endear you with anyone, least of all the vendor.
Good luck; I'm sure Eyal will do his best- whether or not you'll let him, in favor of pursuing a bogus claim with the BBB is the true question.
And just for the record, I'm with Tom in that I'm NOT a DSA fan, but I can appreciate what they do and how they do business.
Daniel, well said.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2009 6:32:54 GMT
Skystone has left the forum apparently, deleting his own account shortly after sending me an angry message. I must admit, i had not noticed the shenanigans in this thread before, but i agree with the majority of you folks on this issue...
Skystone,
I wanted to reply to your message but given that you deleted your account it is pointless. However, i know you can still read posts as a guest so i will respond to you here with the hopes that you will read it eventually.
I do not know Eyal personally, nor have i ever purchased anything from DSA. Furthermore, i really have little to no knowledge of any of DSA's products... Clearly you are enraged at present, and that's understandable i guess. But, the way in which you are expressing your disappointment is not coming across as rational behavior.
Talking about fraud charges, and making assumptions on a companies stand on being affiliated with the BBB (without any evidence to support your claim) does not help to enable objectivity within the forum. If we based our opinions of every company based solely on the bad experiences people have had (and that happens to customers of ANY company) all these companies would "appear" to be horrible.
You have sort of thrown people for a loop here by coming down so hard on DSA before they have had any real opportunity to even respond, let alone rectify the situation (that is, if rectification is warranted). I don't have any biased for or against DSA, nor does this forum gain anything by showing support for their products. Read some of the posts here, none of them are saying "you are wrong", or "you have no business judging DSA", so why the whole me against the world attitude?
Messages stating how "You guys are a bunch of thugs and this forum has no sovereignty or autonomy", and "I don't even care if you delete all my posts to make this place a safe haven for your kind and a preying ground for scammers", is NOT very nice at all. And personally i don't appreciate people making ridiculous accusations of SBG.
You have taken your limited/minimal experience with this company, and have judged their entire business motives based on that.
You have taken your limited/minimal experience with this forum, and have judged every single member based on the opinions of a few.
I am not sure how new you are to the sword world, but if you plan on enjoying yourself, and enjoying your purchases, you may want to be a little more tolerant of mistakes. Mistakes happen with even the best companies, and one of the things that makes them "the best companies" is how well they deal with those mistakes and take care of customers. Jumping to conclusions though doesn't help anybody...
From all the reviews & testimonials i have read about DSA on this board & others, and the opinions of very close friends who's opinions i value very much, i would not hesitate to buy a DSA sword...
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Post by shadowhowler on Oct 24, 2009 7:04:21 GMT
Wow... Sounds like he sent you a very interesting PM. Blegh. I just don't understand his raw anger... everyone has gotten lemon swords... even from very good makers, even from custom makers. If you don't try and give the maker/vendor a chance to make it right before you blast them... well, then its not fair to jump all over them. They need a chance to make it right... its only fair.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2009 7:42:09 GMT
Boh. I don't think you can make someone like that change his mind and act reasonably. It sounds like a lack of maturity to me.
Federico
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2009 8:56:18 GMT
Back on track-
I got my Two Handed Gothic from Eyal at a discount because it had some aesthetic flaws. It was one that he had listed on eBay at a sale price.
Other than some scuffing of the blade finish, I can discern nothing else wrong with the blade. 10 minutes or so with some ultra fine Scotch Brite and I am tickled pink with it.
It is my fifth DSA sword, and I can hardly wait to see what Eyal comes up with next.
I was totally pleased with my DSA SECONDS experience, so there!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2009 21:24:13 GMT
I'm kicking myself...
I ordered a Medieval Knight sword off of the members sale at the end of September, and when it didn't arrive when Eyal said it would, I started to wonder. I exchanged a few emails, and they said it WAS delivered and signed for. Eyal was nice enough to send me the tracking info, and apparently I had had a big brain fart, and put down my old address, from when I used to live in Michigan. Whoops! I hope whoever lives there now is enjoying their free sword! I'm wondering if Eyal can help me out on this, or if I'm out $190?
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Post by genocideseth on Oct 24, 2009 23:01:17 GMT
I'm kicking myself... I ordered a Medieval Knight sword off of the members sale at the end of September, and when it didn't arrive when Eyal said it would, I started to wonder. I exchanged a few emails, and they said it WAS delivered and signed for. Eyal was nice enough to send me the tracking info, and apparently I had had a big brain fart, and put down my old address, from when I used to live in Michigan. Whoops! I hope whoever lives there now is enjoying their free sword! I'm wondering if Eyal can help me out on this, or if I'm out $190? This is my reason I HATE buying things on the net. Make a mistake, your out some money, plus you don't have the experience of holding it in your hand and taking it our of the shop yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2009 1:24:24 GMT
chuckinohio could you tell me if the two handed gothic that you got of eBay if the pomel was peened or threded ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2009 1:31:45 GMT
I'm kicking myself... I ordered a Medieval Knight sword off of the members sale at the end of September, and when it didn't arrive when Eyal said it would, I started to wonder. I exchanged a few emails, and they said it WAS delivered and signed for. Eyal was nice enough to send me the tracking info, and apparently I had had a big brain fart, and put down my old address, from when I used to live in Michigan. Whoops! I hope whoever lives there now is enjoying their free sword! I'm wondering if Eyal can help me out on this, or if I'm out $190? This is my reason I HATE buying things on the net. Make a mistake, your out some money, plus you don't have the experience of holding it in your hand and taking it our of the shop yourself. The only problem with a shop or at least trying to run one, most areas do not have the population to support one. AoV had a store in the mall for about a year and a half back in the mid 90's. Once the internet took off we weighed the expense of the store vs. what we were able to do on the internet and decided to go full internet and drop the store. This allowed us to lower prices and become one of the best known sword companies on the internet. So now, in choosing a sword and ordering it online as a sword practitioner with years of experience I try to be the eyes of the customer. There are many times I have pulled out a sword for a customer and talked to him as I looked over the sword I was going to send to him (checking for flaws etc. and describing the balance and feel of the sword as well as giving my opinions). This has proved to be a very good business practice. As far as giving the wrong address, that really does suck to have paid for a sword that someone else received. Is there anyway to find out who lives there and ask him to give you the sword? Most people are very reasonable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2009 6:18:51 GMT
chuckinohio could you tell me if the two handed gothic that you got of eBay if the pomel was peened or threded ? The pommel on the sword that I received was peened. Eyals description on the Two handed Gothic that was on sale said that it may have minor aesthetic flaws, or inconsistent sharpening. The sword that I received showed only scuffing of the blade finsh that straightened out very easily. There was no indication that the sword had ever been sharpened. Comparing it to my other DSA swords, the blade and edge profiles are the same. All in all a very good deal for $175.00, and I am very glad that I decided to pull the trigger and get one. The review by Jason from AOV on the sword is what convinced me and he was dead right on all counts!! Chuck
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