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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2009 16:34:39 GMT
That about sums it up, Mr. Davis. Succinctly, I might add.
Most faire-goers are of casual interest, so if its pretty and shiny and their kid whines loud enough for it, that's that. It is a shame really, because I know for myself, when I watch these transactions, can't help but shake my head knowing this guy's buying a POS, but you know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and I won't take it upon myself to give a quick lesson on the differences between a SLO and an actual sword...no one wants to be told they just made a dumbass purchase and don't know any better.
Them's fighting words in certain areas.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2009 17:26:32 GMT
These after-hours Renfaire stories are just a little familiar.... I used to cook Competition Chili, and once made it all the way to the C.A.S.I. World Championships held in Terlingua, Tx. The days and nights leading up to competition day were wilder than a frat party....actually, more along the lines of a pagan fertility festival, a Roman Baccanalia, and the Vikings plundering a small town, all rolled into one..... I have videos... ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2009 17:29:18 GMT
at my local ren fair here in NY, the old owners stopped allowing swords when the insurance went up. mixing alcohol and weapons with general public leads to some trouble . under the new owners they are allowed in , but peace tied at the gate so u could not draw it. hey at least i can bring them in again ;D i was only 10 or so when they banned carrying them If you are talking about the New York Renn Faire I was there the last weekend. Security wasn't even checking for peace tying. I saw half a dozen people with all manner of swords, from ATrims to slos, walk right by with nary a glance from the security guy. I was not "packing" Also I didn't know they had banned swords for that time. Interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2009 22:00:58 GMT
at my local ren fair here in NY, the old owners stopped allowing swords when the insurance went up. mixing alcohol and weapons with general public leads to some trouble . under the new owners they are allowed in , but peace tied at the gate so u could not draw it. hey at least i can bring them in again ;D i was only 10 or so when they banned carrying them If you are talking about the New York Renn Faire I was there the last weekend. Security wasn't even checking for peace tying. I saw half a dozen people with all manner of swords, from ATrims to slos, walk right by with nary a glance from the security guy. I was not "packing" Also I didn't know they had banned swords for that time. Interesting. yes the one in sterling ny , there is also a sterling forest in NY that has a festival too. i live near the one in sterling. only past 2 -3 years have weapons been allowed again tho i have seen people make hilts on empty scabbards . but ya the last weekend security was looking pretty lax. i only carry every few times,some times it gets in the way when trying to get threw crowds
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2009 14:30:46 GMT
at my local ren fair here in NY, the old owners stopped allowing swords when the insurance went up. mixing alcohol and weapons with general public leads to some trouble . under the new owners they are allowed in , but peace tied at the gate so u could not draw it. hey at least i can bring them in again ;D i was only 10 or so when they banned carrying them If you are talking about the New York Renn Faire I was there the last weekend. Security wasn't even checking for peace tying. I saw half a dozen people with all manner of swords, from ATrims to slos, walk right by with nary a glance from the security guy. I was not "packing" Also I didn't know they had banned swords for that time. Interesting. I was up there that weekend (NY Renfaire an Tuxedo) and I and a friend were the only ones carrying Atrims, I saw. Both of us were tied, I always tie mine prior to going in as a friend had an overly aggressive security guard tie his CF LOTR too tightly causing imprints in the grip. Chris (my friend) had his tied by the gate guard. I later went out and came back in (removed armor and some other excess gear) and was simply asked if everything was tied (the sword tie was visible from that side but my dagger wasn't visiible) I simply replied yes and proceeded through. I have found that if you have your blades tied prior to going in you get a lot of approval and sometimes even a thanks. Their attitude is if you think safety first, you won't be a problem later.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2009 14:55:26 GMT
All you guys close by to tuxedo in NY, I am only about an hour away! Had no idea there were so many NYers here.
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Post by shadowhowler on Oct 2, 2009 16:32:45 GMT
I was up there that weekend (NY Renfaire an Tuxedo) and I and a friend were the only ones carrying Atrims, I saw. Both of us were tied, I always tie mine prior to going in as a friend had an overly aggressive security guard tie his CF LOTR too tightly causing imprints in the grip. Chris (my friend) had his tied by the gate guard. I later went out and came back in (removed armor and some other excess gear) and was simply asked if everything was tied (the sword tie was visible from that side but my dagger wasn't visiible) I simply replied yes and proceeded through. I have found that if you have your blades tied prior to going in you get a lot of approval and sometimes even a thanks. Their attitude is if you think safety first, you won't be a problem later. I always tie mine myself beforehand with leather strings.... for two reasons. 1. They sometimes can damage your swords with over-aggresive tieing, as you mentioned. 2. Call me a dork, but often they use the plastic zip-ties... and I don't like that messing with my custome. ;D
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Post by sparky on Oct 3, 2009 18:48:15 GMT
With all of the talk about tying swords leads to a question........
Why has anyone ever been attacked or some such at a ren-fair??? Or is it just the paranoid society we live in today?
I've been to a total of ............... 2 fairs in my life, so I really don't know. And that was like 79 and 80 so I can't recall if their swords were tied or not.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2009 22:18:45 GMT
Actually yes, there have been incidents, more of stupidity than active violence. Although last year or the year before a man was stabbed in the parking lot of a renfair down south. It was a kniving and not medievally inspired but a kniving just the same.
I personally have witnessed a nut job with a concealed sword cane blade draw it from a staff he made. The edge was sharpened and he was trying to impress a girl who he just met . Several of us surrrounded him and had him restore the blade to it's staff prior to the Security team escorting him from the grounds.
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Post by sparky on Oct 3, 2009 23:53:59 GMT
Actually yes, there have been incidents, more of stupidity than active violence. Although last year or the year before a man was stabbed in the parking lot of a renfair down south. It was a kniving and not medievally inspired but a kniving just the same. I personally have witnessed a nut job with a concealed sword cane blade draw it from a staff he made. The edge was sharpened and he was trying to impress a girl who he just met . Several of us surrrounded him and had him restore the blade to it's staff prior to the Security team escorting him from the grounds. Man the things we do to impress the ladies Thanks for the info demonskull
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Post by shadowhowler on Oct 4, 2009 4:37:07 GMT
With all of the talk about tying swords leads to a question........ Why has anyone ever been attacked or some such at a ren-fair??? Or is it just the paranoid society we live in today? I've been to a total of ............... 2 fairs in my life, so I really don't know. And that was like 79 and 80 so I can't recall if their swords were tied or not. Well... I have been going to RenFaires for 18 years... anywhere between 2-6 visits a year... and I have never personaly seen nor met anyone who has personly seen an incident of weapon violence at a RenFaire.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2009 20:31:53 GMT
Ok, I want some stories from #8. Stories!
I second that...err... kinnda an old response...
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Post by Ronin Katana on Oct 6, 2009 21:44:53 GMT
I can tell you about this from my prospective as a former vendor myself: 1. Faire rental rates are exceptionally high. In 2003/2004, a simple tent rental would cost you $2500 for the full 7 weeks of the North Carolina faire. Then, you were not supplied with a tent, you had to buy a period pavillion that had to be approved before setting it up. And even then, they determine your location, which is more than likely going to be in an area no one else wanted to be in because of low pedestrian traffic, mud, flies, mosquitos, or water problems. 2. To rent a hard booth, the rates are upwards of $5000 and you have to get on a waiting list to rent a building that has been vacated. Or, you might have to build your own structure (if the faire has room) to their standards- and they own it once you finish it. This can easily cost you $10,000. The greatest part is that after you build your booth, you are not guarenteed rental of it the following year. Booths are assigned due to 'faire seniority' in which you can literally be bumped out of the booth you built by another vendor. 3. All stock has to be approved by faire staff / other vendors before selling. This may not seem like a big deal, but if you are dealing with other sword vendors at the same faire that have seniority over you, they can determine what you can and cannot sell because you are on their turf so to speak. Sometimes this causes really big problems in what you can and cannot offer. 4. Theft is a constant problem in the confines of the faire community. You have to safeguard your own goods, making sure they are secured very well or taken home every evening. If you turn your back, you will be robbed blind by other faire gypsies. This is alot of my vendor friends number one complaint. Keep in mind, the people working the faire are in most cases the same caliber of person you find running the Tilt-A-Whirl at the annual Wal-Mart parking lot carnival in your home town. They are there to make a living any way they know how and will do anything to do so. 5. You are competing with alot of vendors selling cheap junk that literally prohibit you from making a profit. Your average weekend compulsive sword buyer wants the most bang for the buck and don't care about anything other than having a large SLO to hang across his back. He/she will always buy the cheap $74.99 William Wallace look-a-like special over your combat-ready, quality forged swords. 6. The Faire culture has established what is good or not in their little subculture. For example, if you have alot of friends that work faires, you will notice everyone that working there wants a pair of Son of Sandlar boots. Faire gypsies will sell blood plasma or their first born to get these glorified, non-authentic boots because all of their friends have them. How would selling a real, quality, authentic medieval boot go over? It would not, you would go broke trying and probably have your booth egged by Son of Sandlar in the middle of the night for walking on their turf. It's the same with swords. Do people want Albion, A&A, ATrim, or even Windlass or Valiant? No. They want an untempered, over-priced Starfire SLO (trust me, we have broke 3 of these) or a cheap pirate wallhanger with a vinyl sheath. Your product simply does not rate in their subculture, and they have very little interest in learning about new things. 7. The faire is not about weaponry. It's a roving tourist trap selling turkey legs, costumes, and putting on a show for the sheeple. 99% of people go there one weekend a year and have no interest in purchasing anything other than beer or occasionally renting a costume. In short, you don't sell alot - and would not make enough profit to pay the rent, much less pay trustworthy people to work for you. 8. You do not want to know what the Fairegrounds are like after hours. You will just have to trust me on this one. Other peoples mileage may differ, so sorry if I offended. However, this is experience talking and these are the reasons that I found on why not to do faires. Many of the quality vendors I know have very similar thoughts on it. It's simply not worth the pain or effort... Thanks for posting this, it was very helpful. +1 from me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2009 21:55:46 GMT
i kinnda have a problem with tying my sword... I don't really see the point of that, since if one is coming to the faire with mischief in mind they can quickly untie the sword and do what they want to, or they might just use a concealed cane sword and if someone else does that to u or someone else, then you are in biiig trouble
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2009 23:26:42 GMT
If you thought you might need to untie a sword in a hurry, you could always put a small pair of diagonal cutters in a pocket, then cut the zip tie if an emergency arose an idea I had but never heard of it being done, would be a "Safe Area" where the sword enthusiasts could come and be allowed to have their swords out of their scabbards so that they could show them off to other sword enthusiasts. It seems sad that here you are with a sword you are proud of, with other folks with their favorite swords, and they can never show them to each other. An interesting thought, when I was at Scarborough Faire at the huge Angel Sword booth, you ended up with several people with very functional swords in hand out in front of the booth, and nobody seemed to worry about it. I still think they were very nice to let me hold a beautiful, $16,000.00 fantasy blade I would have probably given a kidney for. Back then, that money would have gotten you a decent new Mustang or Camaro
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2009 1:39:35 GMT
If you thought you might need to untie a sword in a hurry, you could always put a small pair of diagonal cutters in a pocket, then cut the zip tie if an emergency arose an idea I had but never heard of it being done, would be a "Safe Area" where the sword enthusiasts could come and be allowed to have their swords out of their scabbards so that they could show them off to other sword enthusiasts. It seems sad that here you are with a sword you are proud of, with other folks with their favorite swords, and they can never show them to each other. An interesting thought, when I was at Scarborough Faire at the huge Angel Sword booth, you ended up with several people with very functional swords in hand out in front of the booth, and nobody seemed to worry about it. I still think they were very nice to let me hold a beautiful, $16,000.00 fantasy blade I would have probably given a kidney for. Back then, that money would have gotten you a decent new Mustang or Camaro no offense, but wasting $16,000 on a sword, unless it shoots nukes out of its tip, is kinnda too much...
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Oct 7, 2009 4:11:16 GMT
With all of the talk about tying swords leads to a question........ Why has anyone ever been attacked or some such at a ren-fair??? Or is it just the paranoid society we live in today? I was present at a small fair in the 90's where a woman off her meds bought a cheap Pakistani KLO (knife-like-object), yelled "kill the queen", and ran at her. She was subdued by her guards, and taken away by the local sheriff. I've also heard stories from big fair (read: Gilroy Ren Fair) security about knives/ swords being pulled, usually by drunk patrons or idiots with too much testosterone and not enough brains. As for myself? Sit down . . . you have to hear this: So, I was twenty, young, and stupid. I went to an impromptu battle pageant at the small fair where my guild attended. I was an English archer, and in front of me was a Spanish pirate. I pulled a sword, he pulled a pistol . *Boom!* The gun was loaded improperly, and hot gunpowder and wadding flew at my chest and face (this was from about twenty feet away). I was knocked back and hit the ground. When I got up, I was *smoking*. So, I ran for the nearest shower (some solar ones right next to the battlefield), and hosed myself down. Luckily, thank God, I received no serious injuries. There was some wadding in my eye that the EMTs washed out easily, and my chest and stomach looked like a bad case of chicken pox (me, the idiot who wore a vest instead of a shirt and doublet). I healed up, and have two gunpowder marks as proof: One on my chest, and another a half-inch below my right eye. For years afterward, when I went to small fairs, people asked, "Hey! Weren't you that guy that got shot at that one pirate fair . . ." Viva infamy . Since then, I have learned the value of fight choreography and knowing your fight partner . There was another time I was stabbed by a sword cane at an after-hours party, but that's a tale for another day . --Edward P.S. Stories? I got'em.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2009 4:15:44 GMT
Concerning peace ties, if you use thinner suede lace, it will hold the sword tightly when checked, but if you give it a nice, quick pull; you'll break the tie (15-20 lbs of pressure) and the sword will come free. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2009 5:06:14 GMT
I can tell you about this from my prospective as a former vendor myself: 5. You are competing with alot of vendors selling cheap junk that literally prohibit you from making a profit. Your average weekend compulsive sword buyer wants the most bang for the buck and don't care about anything other than having a large SLO to hang across his back. He/she will always buy the cheap $74.99 William Wallace look-a-like special over your combat-ready, quality forged swords. 6. The Faire culture has established what is good or not in their little subculture. For example, if you have alot of friends that work faires, you will notice everyone that working there wants a pair of Son of Sandlar boots. Faire gypsies will sell blood plasma or their first born to get these glorified, non-authentic boots because all of their friends have them. How would selling a real, quality, authentic medieval boot go over? It would not, you would go broke trying and probably have your booth egged by Son of Sandlar in the middle of the night for walking on their turf. It's the same with swords. Do people want Albion, A&A, ATrim, or even Windlass or Valiant? No. They want an untempered, over-priced Starfire SLO (trust me, we have broke 3 of these) or a cheap pirate wallhanger with a vinyl sheath. Your product simply does not rate in their subculture, and they have very little interest in learning about new things. 7. The faire is not about weaponry. It's a roving tourist trap selling turkey legs, costumes, and putting on a show for the sheeple. 99% of people go there one weekend a year and have no interest in purchasing anything other than beer or occasionally renting a costume. In short, you don't sell alot - and would not make enough profit to pay the rent, much less pay trustworthy people to work for you. Most of your points I can't argue with at all, even with the PA Renne Faire. Mostly because I just don't know one way or the other. However, with the PA Faire, and I am guessing this is because of its proximity both in time and location to Pennsic and the people involved in Pennsic, things are a bit different. On Point 5: SLOs vs Real Swords, well, SLOs are the majority that are sold, but there are 2 or 3 dealers at this Faire that carry Hanwei and Albion and such (at grossly inflated prices, for the most part, of course, but if you haggle well you can get them for a decent price). Angus of ATrim also put in a personal appearance last year. He spent most of his timein the workshop working on knives... On 6: Well, seeing as many of the vendors do both Pennsic and the Faire, not to mention a significant minority of the faire-goers doing both, there is a better idea at this Faire of what is good. SCA armour (Red Falcon, for instance) and period boots and even one hell of a Bowyer. On 7: Don't forget the shows. Granted, they're there to get you in long enough to buy the painfully overpriced turkey legs and such, but some of them are actually worth it. The PA Faire does a good job of the shows. As for the after hours parties, if you party on the grounds or in the campground, you're probably in trouble. If the group you party with goes outside, then you're probably going to be fine -- barring personal stupidity. As you said, YMMV. I just wanted to share my mileage with the PA Faire.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2009 18:18:11 GMT
If you thought you might need to untie a sword in a hurry, you could always put a small pair of diagonal cutters in a pocket, then cut the zip tie if an emergency arose an idea I had but never heard of it being done, would be a "Safe Area" where the sword enthusiasts could come and be allowed to have their swords out of their scabbards so that they could show them off to other sword enthusiasts. It seems sad that here you are with a sword you are proud of, with other folks with their favorite swords, and they can never show them to each other. An interesting thought, when I was at Scarborough Faire at the huge Angel Sword booth, you ended up with several people with very functional swords in hand out in front of the booth, and nobody seemed to worry about it. I still think they were very nice to let me hold a beautiful, $16,000.00 fantasy blade I would have probably given a kidney for. Back then, that money would have gotten you a decent new Mustang or Camaro no offense, but wasting $16,000 on a sword, unless it shoots nukes out of its tip, is kinnda too much... I guess you would have to have been there to see and hold that sword, it was magnificent, a 4 or 5 ft leaf blade, the guard was two eagles back to back with their wings flared out and touching at the tips, made of metal, and at least two feet of handle so you could control the huge sword. Holding this sword made you feel like you could conquer the world with it Conan would have loved it, and been strong enough to weild it properly
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