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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2009 20:11:20 GMT
Do you ever wish that there was some magical sword directory search engine where you could put in search parameters and it would show you what you are looking for?
For instance, I've been looking for a blade that has: -at least a 5" handle -basket hilt, -threaded pommel -5/8" blade width an inch from the tip -1 1/4" blade near the guard -somewhere around the lower side of 2 lbs, but not to exceed 3lbs -33" blade length -and a somewhat reasonable COB
Basically, I'm looking for a good cut and thrust sword that I can hold like a fishing pole. (I hear that kind of grip can also be called the "handshake" grip?)
I've looked at a few cut and thrusts out there, but all of them seem to be 4" or less and my grip is 4" with the classic "baseball bat" grip, which is fine and dandy for swords that I intend to grip that way, but I'm wanting something a little Renaissance-y.
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Post by ShooterMike on Sept 23, 2009 20:16:27 GMT
I think you will be able to find everything you are describing with the exception of the basket. I've never seen a baskethilt that had a longer-than-normal grip. Unless you look into some of the Swiss Sabers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2009 20:18:16 GMT
Sounds like you're looking for a Type XII - nicely balanced and suitable in thrusting while being cut-oriented as well. I have a Windlass discontinued 'Cut and Thrust' sword (that was how they marketed it) - has the exact dimensions you're looking for but is no longer made.
Fortunately, there are other models out there that would suit what you're looking for but what is the OAL (over all length) you're shooting for? I'm thinking with a 33" blade, at least 40"...that still leaves a lot of options out there. If you could go with a slightly shorter blade, then I'd say go with the 303S from Valiant Armory, the CF/Trim designed sword...for under $200 it is one of two swords you just have to have...the other being the Tinkerline Bastard. I'd say the EMSHS (early medieval single hand sword) but you might find it a touch short at 37" or so.
You know what? You might want to ask Sonny at VA if he'd be willing to do one with a slightly longer grip...I believe the 303S comes stock with a 4" grip.
Edited to add: oh CRAP, how'd I miss the basket part? Ah well...just off the top of my head, two Windlass models come to mind (and only because I find them the most affordable) - the Schiavona, and the Highland Broadsword. I don't think that's what the second one is called...but its a basket hilt with a red cloth liner, long double edged fullered blade. Whatever it is called, you can find either one at wiwingti swords, KoA or one of the other resellers. The first two will give you the best prices; if wiwingti's higher than someone else, he'll price match. I believe KoA does too, but usually their prices are the lowest around. No idea how they pull that off.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2009 20:25:16 GMT
The basket really would be just for looks. I don't think I'll be getting into any swordfights soon where a basket would benifit me in any way. I'll go and check out the 303s. As far as a Type XII, I'm still not sure what you mean by that. Is there a sword encylopedia out there that has classified all swords ever made?
And say... you wouldn't have any pictures of the windlass Cut and Thrust would ya?
Edit: Ahhh, the practical arming sword. Indeed! I had ordered it's big brother, the Longsword and it will arrive tomorrow. I was gonna pose with it and see if I can't win the 303s from that contest going over at the manufacturers forum. But even if I don't win the random drawing, it is defiantly on my list of swords I MUST have.
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Post by ShooterMike on Sept 23, 2009 20:44:42 GMT
...Basically, I'm looking for a good cut and thrust sword that I can hold like a fishing pole. (I hear that kind of grip can also be called the "handshake" grip?) Do you mean that you want to wrap your index finger around the guard? ...I've looked at a few cut and thrusts out there, but all of them seem to be 4" or less and my grip is 4" with the classic "baseball bat" grip, which is fine and dandy for swords that I intend to grip that way, but I'm wanting something a little Renaissance-y. I don't think you're going to find a Renaissance-era complex hilt cut&thrust design that has a grip longer than 4". At least not one that's designed as a single-hander. But if you are wrapping a finger around the cross, I find 3.5" is enough for me. A 4" grip with finger rings is way long.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2009 20:55:19 GMT
Do you ever wish that there was some magical sword directory search engine where you could put in search parameters and it would show you what you are looking for? For instance, I've been looking for a blade that has: -at least a 5" handle -basket hilt, -threaded pommel -5/8" blade width an inch from the tip -1 1/4" blade near the guard -somewhere around the lower side of 2 lbs, but not to exceed 3lbs -33" blade length -and a somewhat reasonable COB Basically, I'm looking for a good cut and thrust sword that I can hold like a fishing pole. (I hear that kind of grip can also be called the "handshake" grip?) I've looked at a few cut and thrusts out there, but all of them seem to be 4" or less and my grip is 4" with the classic "baseball bat" grip, which is fine and dandy for swords that I intend to grip that way, but I'm wanting something a little Renaissance-y. Ok, the Hanwei Side Sword doesn't seem to be what you are looking for, but take a look at the two photos I've attached. My fist measures 3-7/8" across the back of the knuckles and the Hanwei Side Sword has a 4" grip. But, you will notice that there is an alternate grip that can be made with the thumb and first finger wrapped around the hilt but still behind the basket guard. I think that's your "handshake" grip. The Hanwei has only a 30" blade and is only 1/2" wide 1" from the tip, but other than that, I think it would suit your desire for a "renaissance-y" sword. I really like mine.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2009 21:03:00 GMT
Well, not exactly with my finger around the guard. I went and took a picture to show what I mean: I did find a review on the Cold Steel Horsemans Basket Hilt www.coldsteel.com/horsman.htmlAnd it seems that it has a 4" grip with a "big hand friendly" pommel. I might try that out if I don't find better. The only problem with it is that it weighs in at a bit over 3lbs. Oh, and I'm not to terribly concerned that the blade needs to be 33 inches. A few inches plus or minus wouldn't hurt anything. Edit: kultofathena.com/product~item~SH2003N.htmThat sword looks about right. 4.5" grip, 2lbs 9oz. But the weight thing kinda bothers me. That is the antiqued. The "normal" version weighs about 8oz more. Can anyone think of why that would be? Edit #2: No point in repetitious posts right? I went around searching some more for the stats on the backsword and as it turns out the stats for the non antiqued backsword were confused with the broadsword. I'll probably end up getting the backsword and then removing the cloth. I assume that the cloth was originally part of the design because it got pretty cold in Scotland =P
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Post by farandolae on Sept 24, 2009 0:49:08 GMT
First, if you're not familiar with the classification system it's Oakeshott and yes there are references.
Second, Hanwei has the Mortuary sword, problem is most of the handles are under 4 inches.
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Post by ShooterMike on Sept 24, 2009 1:29:49 GMT
As far as Hanwei baskethilts go, I've never used one, but I seem to remember reading from Billiam that Hanwei tends to make baskets that are on the smallish side. You might send a PM asking him to chime in, as he is one of the most knowledgeable members on current production baskethilt swords.
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Post by farandolae on Sept 24, 2009 1:31:20 GMT
I just read his intro, he's ordered a mortuary already. LOL!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2009 1:50:56 GMT
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 24, 2009 1:51:26 GMT
kultofathena.com/product~item~SH2003N.htmThat sword looks about right. 4.5" grip, 2lbs 9oz. But the weight thing kinda bothers me. That is the antiqued. The "normal" version weighs about 8oz more. Can anyone think of why that would be? I had one of the sword pictured in your link... the inside of the basket is SO soft and cozy with that linning.... however the blade is dull as can be, at least mine was. Typical Hanwei edge... blegh. I have no idea why one version would weigh more then another... maybe a typo.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 24, 2009 4:29:56 GMT
Well I did that review on the Cold steel horseman and I do like the sword pretty well but it isn't what I was expecting you to be wanting based on your description. my initial thought on what you wanted was more like Inigo Mantoya's sword from "The Princess Bride" except just a bit wider. Late period cut and thrust swords seem to be pretty light and thin to me but I'm a type XII through XVIII guy my self. You are correct that the Cold Steel Horseman is a bit heavy. the close balance point of 4 inches makes up for that to a large degree but I think I would still prefer it under three pounds. since no one else has posted it here is a link to the "Sword Encyclopedea of the internet" also known as Myarmoury's Oakeshott featured article. the numbers we are always talking about are from a system of classification devised by famed historian and all around cool-sword-guy Ewart Oakeshott. link: www.myarmoury.com/feature_oakeshott.html read the whole thing there's a huge amount of wonderful information there.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2009 8:39:10 GMT
A thousand thanks for the link to this famed Oakeshott repository of knowledge =D
After some consideration, I'm gonna see how this Mortuary sword fits me and go from there. It will be arriving in about 8 hours or so.
And yes farandolae, I did already order it. But I handle my finances kind of like I handled my sparring weapons back in high school. Never commit to an action fully and always allow the option to retreat.
I bought the Mortuary thru KoA, so the most I'll be out of is shipping =P I've actually wondered what the rule is on using KoA as a "try all the swords" service. I don't think I'll do that as they will probably get more strict with their return policy, and I would hate to be the one to ruin it.
But I think I'll be more then happy with the Practical Longsword... hopefully.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2009 10:07:43 GMT
Which mortuary did you purchase from KOA? The standard model #2004 isn't that much of a cutter, the Cromwell Drogheda mortuary is on the other hand. And yes, the basket on the SH2004 mortuary is a tad small. Armour Class makes the BEST reproduction mortuary hilt by far. Schiavona's are also great c/t weapons, just not that many repros out there, in fact, I'm darn sure Del-Tin is the only maker left doing a quality sword of this type. But most everyone I've seen,both repro. & antique have peened cats-head pommels. If you could ever find one, Windlass made a Scottish backsword many years a go that's a wonderful piece. (from left to right) Hanwei #2004 mortuary, Hanwei Cromwell Drogheda mortuary, Armour Class mortuary, Windlass Type 2 Schiavona and Windlass Scottish backsword. The two Windlass pieces are dis-continued models. Scott Wilson @ Darkwood Armory makes some nice sideswords and rapiers as well. I used to own a side sword made by Scott, but had to sell it to pay some bills, still regret having to let it go. www.myarmoury.com/review_dw_ss.htmlcheers, Bill
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2009 19:46:14 GMT
Well, both swords arrived today.
I opened the Longsword first and went a little weak in the knees. It is perfect.
And yes, the mortuary, while it looks nice and the blade was the exact dimensions that I was looking for, the handle is horribly small. Not only that, but on either side of the handle are the wire wraps, which don't do to terribly much for me. Also, it just so happened that the mortuary sword is bent at the end. If the sword were 100 yards longer, it would be a cork screw. I believe this to be from the tempering done on the blade, if a blade's geometry is different side to side, when it's tempered it will start to turn like that.
Soooo, lucky for me, the sword I didn't want was defective =D
It's raining at the moment, so I'm gonna go take apart the longsword and check it out. =D
Toodles!
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