|
Post by skystone on Sept 20, 2009 14:07:31 GMT
Your experience with AOV is somewhat reassuring and interesting. I hope they still have not lost this integrity. I am considering the Castile as well, being half Castillian fuels it a bit too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2009 16:01:53 GMT
...skystone, just so you know; my experiance with Jason was in June. So it was only a few months ago. As I'm still trying to decide if I'm going to keep the sword, I thought that I'd take a look "under the hood". Here are some pictures. I note that the fuller is a bit off center...but I understand that this is pretty normal for a sword in this price point. The notorious guard...which does seem to flare open a bit at the blade opening. the handle, a little dye leached from the leather during assembly, but no biggie the threaded tang...the (suspected) weld here does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. Considering "hairu" had his snap, outlined in his July review. But Sonny did come through and replaced the sword...still it makes me a bit nervous...and I was very, very careful during reassembly. Another note: the blade edges are sharp from guard to tip and "just" able to cut paper from about 8" out from the guard to the tip. My forum readings tell me that this is a very good thing for a sword out-of-the-box! Although I have yet to cut anything (frankly, with any of my blades), my experience with knife sharpening tells me that the edges could still use some fine-tuning...but still great for a "from the factory" edge! Kevin
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2009 18:07:25 GMT
Ya know... From the pictures I'd say that you could probably take a bench vice, or maybe a C clamp to "convince" the two sides of the guard to come together a little bit. It's just metal, apply pressure, and it will react. Some wooden slabs for padding might not hurt either.
And call me crazy, but I'm not seeing the weld. Then again, I'm relatively new to this whole swords thing, but to me that looks like the tang was forged into a cylinder and then threaded.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2009 19:38:26 GMT
Well, I don't see the weld either. But it doesn't mean it's not there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2009 20:06:10 GMT
Veldruk I thought about doing that very thing to the guard until Sonny mentioned that they're cast. It's been my experience that cast metal really resists deformation and will usually just snap as theres really no grain structure. If I could purchase a back-up guard from Valiant (for a reasonable price of course) I might try to "fix" the original. As to my tang "weld" concerns ...if you look at the full size picture of the tang....do you see the "bluish" area (now circled). I believe that to be a weld. If you look at the hairu's Bristol review here: /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=11328&page=1 Look at his pictures, see the blue area on his tang (he circled it in red)...thats where hairu's failed, what looked to be a bad weld. Typically, the color shift to blue in the steel indicates high heat was applied at that point. I'm no metallurgist, but my father was a welder all his adult life so I've seen a lot of burnt metal. Again, I'm just suspicious...I have very little money to spend on my new addiction and I'm just trying to be cautious. ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2009 20:18:44 GMT
The blueish area is most likely not from wielding but is most probably from the heat the grinder produces in order to turn the rectangular tang in to a circular rod which is then threaded with a die.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2009 20:38:41 GMT
Ahhh, I see how that could have ya worried. Well shoot, go ahead and send it back. The sooner you send it back because of a suspicious spot on the tang, the sooner you'll get your new one to disassemble, find there is nothing wrong with it, reassemble and start cutting =D
Edit: The blueish area may or may not be from welding or grinding, but the fact that it is there means that the portion of the tang got really hot and wasn't cooled properly which could result in a brittle metal. (Assuming that my grasp on how metal reacts to heat is still up to snuff)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2009 21:22:45 GMT
Oh yes indeed that is likely the case, but I was just stating that it most likely wasn't wielded, though it could cause problems in the future.
|
|
|
Post by shadowhowler on Sept 20, 2009 22:16:26 GMT
Kevin: You did buy it from KoA... so I would do as Ric Willy mentioned... just send it back for a refund (if your uncomfortable with the sword in general) an exchange (if you still want the sword, but a tighter guard) or swap it out for a different sword completely. They have a exchange/refund policy... use it. At this point its clear to me you will not be happy with this sword... and the sooner you contact them about an exchange/refund... the better.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2009 1:25:14 GMT
To each and everyone that took the time to offer advice or suggestions or just plain read my thread...Thank You!
If I've come across as being a royal pain in the butt, complaining about my new sword, I apologize for that. I guess I just don't know enough on the subject of swords yet to complain that much.
During the last 3-4 months I've been reading through these forums trying to gain a better understanding for both swords and the people that collect and use them. Everybody for the most part here is friendly and courteous, offering help whenever they can. That really appealed to me....
In my own defense, I guess I just wanted to be absolutely sure that I didn't get that "1 in a million" lemon that sometimes occurs.
Thanks you all for you patient tolerance of my ignorance.
Kevin
|
|
|
Post by skystone on Sept 21, 2009 2:05:16 GMT
In my opinion and limited experience the first blade I ever tried I turned the entire thing streaky blue like that. I learned I lost the temper of the metal on it by over heating it on the buffer. Sometimes silver soldering a guard to a blade does it if it overheats. Those are all bad spots to loose the temper on a blade. Sometimes I anneal a tang to fit it into a curved handle. Softer steel is sometimes desired towards the tang. Heck sometimes you have to heat up the tang to burn a wood grip in place. Lets hope the Pros can confirm or deny the blue spot on the tang? I am not an expert but I find the guard space on these swords could be machine slotted instead of cast wide and flaring like it does. Or if trying to be historically accurate at least a tighter cast ricasso and a few minutes with a good file. All in all I bet it is a heck of a beater and would live long. It would be interesting to see the fit space numbers of notable high end sword makers just to compare.
|
|
|
Post by shadowhowler on Sept 21, 2009 3:44:11 GMT
To each and everyone that took the time to offer advice or suggestions or just plain read my thread...Thank You! If I've come across as being a royal pain in the butt, complaining about my new sword, I apologize for that. I guess I just don't know enough on the subject of swords yet to complain that much. During the last 3-4 months I've been reading through these forums trying to gain a better understanding for both swords and the people that collect and use them. Everybody for the most part here is friendly and courteous, offering help whenever they can. That really appealed to me.... In my own defense, I guess I just wanted to be absolutely sure that I didn't get that "1 in a million" lemon that sometimes occurs. Thanks you all for you patient tolerance of my ignorance. Kevin My man... we are honored to have you here, and you have nothing to apologize for.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2009 6:05:52 GMT
I've done some welding, cutting, and grinding. MIG, TIG, stick plasma, oxy-acetylene. If done properly a weld in the area considered here would not be a concern to me. The weld would be as stong or stronger than the parent metal adjacent to it. I'm pretty sure that "blue" area you are discussing here is from the heat induced by the grind. One of two things happened on the construction of this tang. It was ground as part of it's material reduction type construction and then a die was used to cut the threads on the end of the tang. Or a section of threaded rod was butt welded onto the end of the tang and then cleaned up by grinding. I would not have a problem with either way if proper technique was used. Well enough on that.
The fuller being off center and the untidy grip would concern me more.
.
|
|
|
Post by Brendan Olszowy on Sept 21, 2009 11:40:41 GMT
If you grab a ruler and measure up that photo, you'll see that the fuller is only off by half a millimetre from the centreline. The tang is whats WAY off centre. I was just sitting on my hands waiting for someone to notice that. Check the distance from the tang to the edge of the blade on each side. The thing is you get what you pay for, of course, and if you look for flaws you'll find them, in anything. It's like your 'life partner', they're not perfect, but they're what you've got, and you overlook the flaws for the beauty. If you get it replaced I guarantee you will find more; beauty and flaws. Gawd, I know where the imperfections are in my work, as any real perfectionist does, but they're not so obvious, nuh uh, and usually people don't see them, but I know they're there As for the gap in the guard, I have absolutely no idea why you are woried about that? Does it affect anything practcal - no.
|
|
|
Post by shadowhowler on Sept 21, 2009 12:06:22 GMT
Gawd, I know where the imperfections are in my work, as any real perfectionist does, but they're not so obvious, nuh uh, and usually people don't see them, but I know they're there We are always our own worst critics, Brenno. I know this was true of me when I was an artist, as I am sure it is true of you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2009 15:10:39 GMT
(Brendan) I had actually noticed the off-center tang, but decided to keep my mouth shut. At this price-point level of sword manufacture, I'm still not sure what is and is not considered acceptable. Something I've just got to pick up....
By the way, your swords really are beyond compare! They are quite artistic, but yet unlike some of the high-end knifes that I've seen over the years; they don't seem too fragile or delicate to be used. Very nice indeed!
Thanks
Kevin
|
|
SlayerofDarkness
Member
Review Points: 65
"Always give everyone the benefit of the doubt."
Posts: 3,067
|
Post by SlayerofDarkness on Sept 22, 2009 2:08:46 GMT
Okay... I have a couple things to say in response to various posts throughout the last two pages of this thread. Sorry I missed responding when they were first posted. Regarding a vendor inspecting swords before shipment: I don't know about most of them, but Marc at WiwingtiSwordSupply will check swords for you. I also believe that Jason at AoV will do the same. IDK about Richard at Swordnation, but due to my previous interactions with him, I'd say that he would be happy to help. I sort of doubt that the guys at KoA have the spare time, but who knows? Regarding AOV: I've personally met Jason and I must say that he is my #1 choice of dealers (tied with wiwingti, actually, but they sell different stuff anyway. ;D ) I don't know why Skystone would think his sword was un-examined just because it was packaged with foreign newspapers. Isn't it likely that Jason opened the package, checked out the sword, and then used the original packing materials again? As for the loose part, yeah that's bad. But Jason will take care of you. ArmsofValor ROCKS! ;D Regarding replacement parts for the Bristol: Yes, Sonny will be happy to provide you with spare guards and pommels for a reasonable price. I know that Tom K. bought a VA/AT303 guard and pommel for a project awhile back, so I can only assume that Sonny would offer the Signature line's parts as well. Try emailing him if you're really interested. Regarding FableBlades: Thumper, you have no idea how awesome FB's are. ;D I happen to be the lucky owner of the Sword of Garrigal and the FTW, and they are the best weapons I have ever held; including an Abion. As far as them being 'too fragile or delicat to be used', I have chopped through SO much that a sword should never be subjected to with my Garrigal, and its still going strong. The worst of those targets was a 4.5" diameter branch; the Garrigal cleaved it in half with one blow. After hundreds of unforgiving targets, dozens of flubbed cuts, and some hits to the cutting stand, both the FTW and Garrigal have no sets, bends or twists, are just as structerally sound as ever, and are just as sharp as the day they arrived. ;D Oh and as far as the 4.5" branch... Yeah, I went kind of crazy with excitement with my FB's. I know that tree's are BAD TARGETS for swords, btw. I have since ceased all tree-slicing action, thank you very much. ;D I would personally consider a FB to be twice as tough as a DSA. Not to mention that they handle SOOOO much better. [/rant] ;D Just FYI and IMO, and all that. ;D -Slayer
|
|
|
Post by farandolae on Sept 22, 2009 2:55:50 GMT
It's like your 'life partner', they're not perfect, but they're what you've got, and you overlook the flaws for the beauty. Does it affect anything practical - no. Word, +1
|
|
|
Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 22, 2009 4:26:48 GMT
Slayer, let me clear one thing up for you. yes I bought a custom AT303 guard and a pommel but Sonny has made it very clear ever since the 304 with Bristol parts was made that he would NOT be offering Signature line parts any more. EVER. the Custom sword shoppe is opening up and they will be offering a variety of sword parts for purchase and it seems like he is willing to sell those piece-meal but not the signatures. believe me I tried.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2009 5:33:22 GMT
I dont think thats unreasonable either.
|
|